Defiant vs. Enterprise-E (Sorry, I'm new here)

[Radtornado]

Why couldn't the defiant fire when cloaked when 100years before the Klingon bird of pray in st6 could ?
If she had been able to fire I think the defiant would win any battle with any ship no matter the size,

 

[MacLeod]

Technology doesn't stand still.

To draw an anology build a 12 foot wall, and someone will build a 13 foot ladder.

So sure you can design a better cloak, but someone elese will design a better sesnors.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Why couldn't the defiant fire when cloaked when 100years before the Klingon bird of pray in st6 could ?
If she had been able to fire I think the defiant would win any battle with any ship no matter the size,

I'm sure that's what the Romulan's thought when they build the Scimitar. Firing under cloak with primary and secondary shields with 3x as many disruptors and photon torpedoes as the ENT-E had. At the end of the battle Shinzon had to resort to using the thalaron pulse since both his ship and the ENT-E were out of ammo. The best the suped up Scimitar could do was stalemate against the Federation Flagship

 

[doylem1]

The Defiant's main firepower is in the forward arc. The tactic against a battleship such as the Ent-E would have to be strafing hit and run raids. The Ent-E in terms of phaser coverage has no limited arc so it doesn't matter where the Defiant attacks from the Ent-E can hit the Defiant with sustained phaser fire from any angle.
The Ent-E owns the Defiant very much like the Dominion battleship from the episode the Valiant.
Also the Defiant has never other than a Galor class ship to my knowledge on screen ever taken anything outside her weight class in the Prime universe. All during the Dominion War fight scenes the Defiant tackled Bugships and Cardie/Breen frigates. The Cruisers/Battleships Galaxy/Excelsior took on the dominions bigger ships.

 

[Satyrquaze]

I'm sure that's what the Romulan's thought when they build the Scimitar. Firing under cloak with primary and secondary shields with 3x as many disruptors and photon torpedoes as the ENT-E had. At the end of the battle Shinzon had to resort to using the thalaron pulse since both his ship and the ENT-E were out of ammo. The best the suped up Scimitar could do was stalemate against the Federation Flagship

I didn't see that particular battle at all like that. While I personally feel that the Enterprise-E would stomp the Defiant just on the grounds (as someone else already pointed out) that the Enterprise-E is a capital ship and the Defiant is a gunboat.

But, the Scimitar didn't run out of ammo. Her weapon systems were rendered inoperative when the Enterprise-E rammed her. Only then, did Shinzon resort to using the thalaron pulse. And the only reason why the E-E was capable of ramming the Scimitar was because Shinzon was overconfidentally toying with Picard. If Shinzon had the intention of destorying the E-E and killing Picard, the battle (taking out the fact that the E-E is the hero shipand removing the script-writers) would have lasted all of two minutes.

What, a ship that took out a pair of Romulan Warbirds in less time than it takes to tell can't handle the Federation Flagship?

 

[T'Girl]

Why couldn't the defiant fire when cloaked when 100years before the Klingon bird of pray in st6 could ?

Lost technology? Klingons fight a lot between each other, if one Klingon engineer came up with a cloak that could be fired through, he would have taken it to the head of his house, the same engineer might have been aboard the General's Bird of Prey, monitoring the device, when the ship was destroyed.

If she had been able to fire I think the defiant would win any battle with any ship no matter the size,

Maybe not, the Bird of Prey in TUC never once fired it's main guns, and fired torpedoes only at a slow rate. It's possible that the Defiant would lose much of it's speed and maneuverability as well.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The USS Prometheus would come along and blast them both back to the stone age. The end.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

Probably already mentioned but I see the battle going a lot like the battle between the Mirror Defiant and the huge Klingon capital ship.

The Defiant getting right up close, dodging the Ent Phaser blasts and hitting it with the phaser arrays that are in fact all over the ship but were rarely shown.

The Valiant wasn't doing too badly against the huge Jem Hadar behemoth either before the kids got stupid...

So yeah, replay Shattered Mirror with the Ent E instead of the Klingon capital ship and the Defiant still rolls out the winner, albiet at a cost.

But then they're both the good guys and they're my top 2 ships in Trek so I'd prefer it if they didn't go up against each other.

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

Sisko hands down

Picard would convene a 20 Minute discussion in those masculan pink puffy conference chairs ultimately taking the advice of the ship shrink- social worker regarding crucial battlefield decisions

Same reason Kirk in the TMP enterprise would win

Target phasers on the kindergarten, game over

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Probably already mentioned but I see the battle going a lot like the battle between the Mirror Defiant and the huge Klingon capital ship.

The Defiant getting right up close, dodging the Ent Phaser blasts and hitting it with the phaser arrays that are in fact all over the ship but were rarely shown.

The Valiant wasn't doing too badly against the huge Jem Hadar behemoth either before the kids got stupid...

So yeah, replay Shattered Mirror with the Ent E instead of the Klingon capital ship and the Defiant still rolls out the winner, albiet at a cost.

But then they're both the good guys and they're my top 2 ships in Trek so I'd prefer it if they didn't go up against each other.

Oh you mean that episode where the Defiant was dodging, weaving and shooting at a STATIONARY target? In a dogfight like the ENT-E vs the Borg Cube or Scimitar the ENT-E has always remained moving and laying on phaser and torpedo fire. Also rememeber the ENT-E has powerful shields and abalative armor. She took a hell of a beating from the Scimitar and yet ENT-E's shields held out and never collapsed.

BTW do the Klingon ships in the Mirror Universe even have shield? The Defiant just kind of shot it's phaser's, cannons and torpedos at every ship and their was always fire and an explosion.

 

[T'Girl]

The Defiant getting right up close, dodging the Ent Phaser blasts and hitting it with the phaser arrays that are in fact all over the ship but were rarely shown.

This has never made the tiniest bit of sense to me. In order to "get up close," and the "skim the surface of the hull," the Defiant would have to hit the brakes and slow to a relative crawl to do this, otherwise her time close to the enemy ship's hull would be less than a single second.

We've seen starships extend their shields outward, so this trick on the part of the Defiant would work at most once, second time it's tried, they impact the enemies shields.

Also, the Defiant doesn't have "phaser arrays that are in fact all over the ship but were rarely shown." The Defiant has four forward (basically fixed) pulse phaser cannons, and then a single phaser mount on her aft dorsal hull. She has no "phaser strips" at all ... anywhere.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

The Defiant getting right up close, dodging the Ent Phaser blasts and hitting it with the phaser arrays that are in fact all over the ship but were rarely shown.

This has never made the tiniest bit of sense to me. In order to "get up close," and the "skim the surface of the hull," the Defiant would have to hit the brakes and slow to a relative crawl to do this, otherwise her time close to the enemy ship's hull would be less than a single second.

We've seen starships extend their shields outward, so this trick on the part of the Defiant would work at most once, second time it's tried, they impact the enemies shields.

Also, the Defiant doesn't have "phaser arrays that are in fact all over the ship but were rarely shown." The Defiant has four forward (basically fixed) pulse phaser cannons, and then a single phaser mount on her aft dorsal hull. She has no "phaser strips" at all ... anywhere.

Then where were all the phaser blasts coming from in that ep and the ep where it fought the Excelsior?
(And I think a random phaser blast came from....somewhere in the VOY Ep: Message in a bottle)

Aside from those eps I don't think the Defiant was ever depicted firing anything but its pulse phasers.
(A bit like how the VOY VFX guys forgot to do the "charging" pulse on the phaser strips before firing after about mid series 6. Yeah that used to bother me as a kid! )

Was a bit odd how the VFX producers forgot, particularly in eps like Sacrifice of Angels etc where it could blatantly be used effectively.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Having a ray beam hit a bubble is a nice money saver for a TV series like TNG. But when affordable CG came along and they could easily show damage being done to the ships, the bubbles vanished in favour of the much more visceral sight of hulls being carved up.

One of the STXI writers said to think of shields like ENT's polarized hull plating - a field running through the hull that strengthens the molecular bonds, instead of a bubble of energy around the ship.

 

[-Brett-]

I'm sure that's what the Romulan's thought when they build the Scimitar. Firing under cloak with primary and secondary shields with 3x as many disruptors and photon torpedoes as the ENT-E had. At the end of the battle Shinzon had to resort to using the thalaron pulse since both his ship and the ENT-E were out of ammo. The best the suped up Scimitar could do was stalemate against the Federation Flagship

To be fair, that's probably more because the Scimitar was skippered by an idiot than because of any particular flaw in the ship itself.

 

[MacLeod]

Why couldn't the defiant fire when cloaked when 100years before the Klingon bird of pray in st6 could ?

Lost technology? Klingons fight a lot between each other, if one Klingon engineer came up with a cloak that could be fired through, he would have taken it to the head of his house, the same engineer might have been aboard the General's Bird of Prey, monitoring the device, when the ship was destroyed.

If she had been able to fire I think the defiant would win any battle with any ship no matter the size,

Maybe not, the Bird of Prey in TUC never once fired it's main guns, and fired torpedoes only at a slow rate. It's possible that the Defiant would lose much of it's speed and maneuverability as well.

But in the case of TUC, Chnag no doubt thought he had a fool proof cloak which couldn't be detected as appeared to be toying with Kirk. There is no evidence to say that the ship couldn't have had a higher rate of fire.