Deep Space 9 and Vulcans

[PorthosShadow]

I think that The Vulcans as a species had been fleshed out else where and DS9 had more to focus on with The Cardassians, Bajorans, Ferengi, Klingons, ect... With the exception of the Klingons DS9 was focusing on other races that didn't get alot of screen time in the past. Personally I'm not a big fan of The Vulcans either so its fine with me that they were mostly absent from DS9.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

^^ Some time ago someone pointed out that Sarak and many of the more congenial Vulcans we got to know in TOS, were diplomats, trained to deal in an amicable way with other species. Other Vulcans are actually more true to the ordinary Vulcan demeanor.

 

[Photon]

Must be something swimmin' around in that Vulcan/Romulan gene pool. That air of superiority; that, "you're a piece of shit" syndrome both speceis have.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

Ancient cultures, set in their ways?

 

[Nebusj]

It's still strange that the people who created the show would enjoy writing Vulcans as arrogant jerks. After all, Vulcans are one of the prime selling features of Star Trek -- they're things everyone remembers from the original show, and that most people whether Trekkies or not like. So portraying one of the natural draws as unlikeable jerks is ... playing against audience expectations, all right, but is it wise?

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

Well, they also went counter type with the next captain of the Enterprise, counter type with a Doctor or two. Sisko, Janeway, etc. Vulcans didn't seem like jerks to me, until Enterprise. Even then they weren't all jerks, just some of them. And at that maybe it was just a more realistic take on humans, that they were not as adoring of our unique ingenuity and inmate goodness, as Spock and Sarak were. There was a level of undisguised hostility towards humans in Enterprise that was, seemed to be, taking things in the wrong direction. Of course, that was before they got to know us really well, and recognized that wiht the founding of the Federation we would be reliable allies. In several hundred years we'll be quite the stars in the galaxy!

 

[Therin of Andor]

DarthTom said:
If I may ask, how do you know so much of the insider information on the show?

Like me, he's probably been collecting "Starlog" magazine every month since the late 70s.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Nebusj said:
It's still strange that the people who created the show would enjoy writing Vulcans as arrogant jerks.

You mean superior and arrogant like Sarek, T'Pring, Stonn, T'Pau, TMP's Vulcan masters, Sonak, Saavik and Valeris?

 

[Who_Trek]

Wasn't there a Vulcan serial murderer too? The one with the transporter rifle? I never really thought about it, but yeah, you're right: the Vulcans were fairly dark characters in DS9. Hmmm.... DS9 and the word "dark" just seem to go together somehow.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Who_Trek said:
Wasn't there a Vulcan serial murderer too? The one with the transporter rifle?

Indeed so, in "Field of Fire." They did that specifically to point out how frakked up the situation must be. When a Vulcan snaps to that extent, you know things aren't good.

 

[Tzenkethi]

Arguably if DS9 was about emotion then the Vulcans were used as a metaphor that bottling your emotions is bad for you.
Solok was overdue a cleansing ritual, Chulak was accidently overlooked.

 

[Unicron]

Therin of Andor said:
Like me, he's probably been collecting "Starlog" magazine every month since the late 70s.

 

[indranee]

Nebusj said:
It's still strange that the people who created the show would enjoy writing Vulcans as arrogant jerks. After all, Vulcans are one of the prime selling features of Star Trek -- they're things everyone remembers from the original show, and that most people whether Trekkies or not like. So portraying one of the natural draws as unlikeable jerks is ... playing against audience expectations, all right, but is it wise?

actually, to me, that jerkishness is their selling point!

 

[Michael]

Re: Deep Space Nine And Vulcans

I sometimes think that it's very rare that the writers/producers of the later series really understood, how to do a vulcan. They're always portrayed as emotionless and stoic. But if you look at characters like Spock or Sarek you'll find that they really aren't that emotionless.

Another reason why there weren't so much vulcans on DS9 could be, that they intentionally tried to distinguish their series from the other ones. As one has already put it, vulcans are a trademark of the product Star Trek. Maybe they were trying to avoid this comparison.

 

[Kegek]

Re: Deep Space Nine And Vulcans

Belar said:
Another reason why there weren't so much vulcans on DS9 could be, that they intentionally tried to distinguish their series from the other ones. As one has already put it, vulcans are a trademark of the product Star Trek. Maybe the were trying to avoid this.

One thing you can't fault DS9 for was a lack of Vulcans. With 26 appearances, there were more episodes with guest Vulcans on DS9 than any other Star Trek seres - even beating ENT out (which is at 21).

Check here.

Admittedly, a lot of those are irrelevant, background figures, but there's definately a lot of them.

 

[Michael]

Re: Deep Space Nine And Vulcans

Kegek said:One thing you can't fault DS9 for was a lack of Vulcans. With 26 appearances, there were more episodes with guest Vulcans on DS9 than any other Star Trek seres - even beating ENT out (which is at 21).

Check here.

Admittedly, a lot of those are irrelevant, background figures, but there's definately a lot of them.

Then maybe I should clarify myself -- what I really mean are not extras standing in the background being vulcan. I mean really fleshed out characters -- more like T'Pol, Tuvok, Vorik or even DS9's Sakonna and Chu'lak.

So, yes, you may be right: There were many appearances of a vulcan (on TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT). But it never really felt right. At least not to me.

 

[toughlittleship]

Re: Deep Space Nine And Vulcans

I've never had a problem with the Vulcans featured in any of the spinoff series really.

I always liked the references to the Vulcans exploring the Gamma Quadrant in the early seasons. Which they nicely revisited in The Sword of Kahless.

 

[MyCylon]

Re: Deep Space Nine And Vulcans

It's interesting. Until I came to this board, it never even dawned on me that one could think DS9 was painting a negative picture of the Vulcans. Personally, I think it's nonsense, actually.
There were two, maybe three episodes our of 170+ on DS9 that featured the Vulcans in larger parts. That's hardly a basis to start generalizing DS9's take on Vulcans, I think.
Plus I'm not sure how many TOS and TNG episodes before that featured the Vulcans but it certainly has to be a far higher number than what DS9 produced. The only thing you can take from those two or three eps on DS9, I think, is that Vulcans aren't alway like Spock or Sarek. I don' think it's anything more than that.
As for using them more on DS9, frankly, I never missed them. I assume the writers felt similarly and hence never saw any need to incorporate them more so than they did.

 

[Kegek]

Re: Deep Space Nine And Vulcans

Justtoyourleft said:
Plus I'm not sure how many TOS and TNG episodes before that featured the Vulcans but it certainly has to be a far higher number than what DS9 produced.

Well, they were featured far more often, but, as you noted yourself, less prominently. From my same source, which does not count the appearances of Spock on TOS, Tuvok on VOY or T'Pol on ENT:

DS9: 26
TNG: 24
ENT: 21
VOY: 18
TOS: 4

Of course, if one takes, say, the four TOS episodes we get: "Amok Time" (which features Spock's wife T'Pring, the Vulcan matriarch T'Pau, and Stonn) "Journey to Babel" (which features Spock's father Sarek) and "The Savage Curtain" (which features Surak, the forefather of Vulcan philosophy). Their only minor appearance is as some of Mirror Spock's henchmen in "Mirror, Mirror", but that's counted with the rest. For its smallest number of guest Vulcans, TOS gave us some of the highest quality Vulcan guest stars; none of DS9's far more ample guest Vulcan cast were as interesting as Sarek or T'Pau.

Paradoxical, innit?

 

[Crewman6]

Re: Deep Space Nine And Vulcans

Kegek said:

Belar said:
Another reason why there weren't so much vulcans on DS9 could be, that they intentionally tried to distinguish their series from the other ones. As one has already put it, vulcans are a trademark of the product Star Trek. Maybe the were trying to avoid this.

One thing you can't fault DS9 for was a lack of Vulcans. With 26 appearances, there were more episodes with guest Vulcans on DS9 than any other Star Trek seres - even beating ENT out (which is at 21).

Check here.

Admittedly, a lot of those are irrelevant, background figures, but there's definately a lot of them.

Indeed. It always seemed to me like TNG was trying to distance itself from Vulcans and not use them much. Understandable at the time - they were trying to carve out their own unique identity, separate from TOS. But, they needed a Vulcan every now and then to remind everyone it was the same universe.

Off the top of my head, I can only really think of a very small number of Vulcans on TNG - Selar, of course. Captain Satelk from "First Duty". And the admiral from "Conspiracy." They were very few and far between, though.

on DS9, we had (at least it seemed like) far more Vulcan supporting characters. Hell, the very first scene of the first episode has a Vulcan captain. And then there's Sakonna - a very meaty guest star role. The Admiral in "Rules of Engagement". The murderer Ezri catches. The baseball team. Etc. etc.

Vulcans were never anything more than bit players on TNG - with the exception of Spock and Sarek, obviously. DS9 gave 'em at least a few moments to shine.