Heyas CRA,
Very nice work, but from your Ship list I see the USS Potemkin is missing....any reason?
VF
Very nice work, but from your Ship list I see the USS Potemkin is missing....any reason?
VF
Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around
- Thread starter Captain Robert April
- Start date
Simple negligence.
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Guest
Guest
CRA,
I have been observing your work for some time now, and I think that you have made a good deal of progress in the right direction, but couldn't the discrepencies in the two engine rooms be due periodic refits of the engines and that they are actually the same room?
I have been observing your work for some time now, and I think that you have made a good deal of progress in the right direction, but couldn't the discrepencies in the two engine rooms be due periodic refits of the engines and that they are actually the same room?
I think his reasoning for two engine rooms has more to do with dialogue references to where the engine room is rather than visual differences in equipment and layout. Some episodes put it in the back of the saucer near the impulse engines, others put it in the secondary hull at the base of the pylons.
Plus, from a functional perspective, it does make sense to have two engine rooms, one in each hull. There was that bit of dialouge in "The Apple" where Kirk told Scotty to separate the saucer if he had to. Now, if Scotty went and did that, the saucer section would need it's own engine room, otherwise it wouldn't get very far, defeating the purpose of using the saucer as a giant lifeboat.
Plus, from a functional perspective, it does make sense to have two engine rooms, one in each hull. There was that bit of dialouge in "The Apple" where Kirk told Scotty to separate the saucer if he had to. Now, if Scotty went and did that, the saucer section would need it's own engine room, otherwise it wouldn't get very far, defeating the purpose of using the saucer as a giant lifeboat.
Well, to be picky, I actually have three engine rooms, one right by the impulse engines (which bears no resemblence to anything we saw on the show, partly because nothing we saw on the show fits properly in that space, but mainly because the vast bulk of the scenes involving Engineering either indicate that it's in "the lower levels", or have something to do with the ship's main power systems, and that means down in the Engineering Hull).
As for the two engine rooms in the secondary hull, it mainly has to do with the changes in the size and contours of the Engineering set. It got a helluva lot bigger and sprouted a short corridor leading to the door when the second season started, whereas the first season version opens right onto a main corridor. That's a lot more than just equipment upgrades.
I'm thinking of going into more detail with the technical primer, about how during the time of the first season, there was only one main engine room, with the aft area being a much more technical area. Then, the following year, it was decided to transfer the control facilities to the aft area, for better access and control of the power systems which run through that section, while the forward room was delegated to more secondary functions, like control and monitoring of the ship's fusion reactors.
Like I said, the whole thing started off as a joke, but it just works so damn well that I guess I'll keep it.
As for the two engine rooms in the secondary hull, it mainly has to do with the changes in the size and contours of the Engineering set. It got a helluva lot bigger and sprouted a short corridor leading to the door when the second season started, whereas the first season version opens right onto a main corridor. That's a lot more than just equipment upgrades.
I'm thinking of going into more detail with the technical primer, about how during the time of the first season, there was only one main engine room, with the aft area being a much more technical area. Then, the following year, it was decided to transfer the control facilities to the aft area, for better access and control of the power systems which run through that section, while the forward room was delegated to more secondary functions, like control and monitoring of the ship's fusion reactors.
Like I said, the whole thing started off as a joke, but it just works so damn well that I guess I'll keep it.
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Guest
Guest
The device in the center of the engine, according the st: encyclopedia is the m/ma integrator, is that the same as the m/am reaction chamber we see in TNG.
In "Elaan of Troyius" we see that the dilithium crystal articulation frame is in the center of it. Wouldn't that suggest that it works like a synchrotron and one side could control matter while the other controls the antimatter?
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"The more they overhaul the plumbing, the eaiser it is to stuff up the drain" Mr. Scott ST:III
In "Elaan of Troyius" we see that the dilithium crystal articulation frame is in the center of it. Wouldn't that suggest that it works like a synchrotron and one side could control matter while the other controls the antimatter?
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"The more they overhaul the plumbing, the eaiser it is to stuff up the drain" Mr. Scott ST:III
A point of historical record: The term "matter/antimatter reaction chamber" originated in "That Which Survives".
As for the dilithium crystal integrator assembly, or whatever Scotty called it in "Elaan of Troyius", I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about the specific function of that device, or a lot of the doohickeys on board. I'm only going to go as far as to try and line up the technology to a logical place in the overall canon.
As for that dilithium hummer, what it indicates to me is the orientation of the engine room with regard to the warp core and the nacelles (which is why I put it aft of the power transfer manifold).
As for the dilithium crystal integrator assembly, or whatever Scotty called it in "Elaan of Troyius", I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about the specific function of that device, or a lot of the doohickeys on board. I'm only going to go as far as to try and line up the technology to a logical place in the overall canon.
As for that dilithium hummer, what it indicates to me is the orientation of the engine room with regard to the warp core and the nacelles (which is why I put it aft of the power transfer manifold).
I can really follow your logic for multiple engine rooms. Now that I have all three seasons on DVD, I've been slowly documenting all the episodes technical comments on my own. I have reason to believe that there are at least three engineering compartments, probably more. You do your thing though, I'll post my work in my on thread someday.
Keep up the good work!
I too can understand the logic for two engine rooms in the secondary hull, but i dont like the way you have them situated. For my deck plans, I have instead placed the first season engine room on top of the second/third season room. I have taken some liberties (not alot though). For my ship this satisfies Kirks comments about "engineering decks" in the early first season. I envision the engineering section to be similar to that of the TMP-beyond engineering where you have a central engineering room, but some branches and offshoots still connected to engineering.
I'm still trying to figure how that would work...
I should explain: without getting into an argument, my personal feelings are that TOS was always told in retrospect (captains logs) and that what we saw wasnt always 100% accurate, but merely an interpretation. I say this in regards to the engine room because look at how much it changed in the first season. Every time we saw it, it was different. So what we saw behind the screen may not have actually been what was behind there in reality. Does that make any sense, I hope?
BTW, i assume the logic for two engine rooms is similar to the logic of two engine rooms on a warship: in the event of battle if operations need to be transferred over because of damage, there is a second room with which to control operations. Is this correct?
BTW, i assume the logic for two engine rooms is similar to the logic of two engine rooms on a warship: in the event of battle if operations need to be transferred over because of damage, there is a second room with which to control operations. Is this correct?
IO have within teh last fortnight been rewatching TOS on DVD and have been very struck by how the logs are an after-the-event summary, at least during season one - this is absolutely the best retcon I have ever heard for TOS inconsistencies, and even explains the off-centre elevator (it wasn't, Kirk had a squint)
That starts us down the path towards revisionism, and that way lays madness.
Hi, first post here obviously.
I wanted to comment on a couple of things since they struck me as interesting:
That said, I do like the sunken bridge idea since I never could figure out why there was an encircling corridor beyond the bridge that essentially has nothing more than a restroom and a set of stairs. A sunken bridge at least gives easier access to the overhead bridge panels for maintenance and repair, so that idea is actually pretty nifty.
Capt. Robert April; I was wondering since you seem to be one who is interested in accuracy to the series rather than fandom itself (which results in alot of grief when they don't mesh) as to if you might be interested in some particulars I have that are... in the same vein as your attempts?
I can say that Mr. Jein would definately not be happy with me - as a start.
I wanted to comment on a couple of things since they struck me as interesting:
I kinda like the work as well. I have not been a fan of the old blueprints and appreciate the effort to make a more correct set.
That said, I do like the sunken bridge idea since I never could figure out why there was an encircling corridor beyond the bridge that essentially has nothing more than a restroom and a set of stairs. A sunken bridge at least gives easier access to the overhead bridge panels for maintenance and repair, so that idea is actually pretty nifty.
Well, it seems to work ok and the specific turbolift entrance to the maintenance corridor does keep repair traffic off of the bridge, so that idea works as well.
Actually, isn't that really just a definition for Auxiliary Control - where the Enterprise seems to be most vulnerable to takeover? Auxiliary Control is on deck 8 isn't it?
Capt. Robert April; I was wondering since you seem to be one who is interested in accuracy to the series rather than fandom itself (which results in alot of grief when they don't mesh) as to if you might be interested in some particulars I have that are... in the same vein as your attempts?
I can say that Mr. Jein would definately not be happy with me - as a start.
Do tell...
Tell?
Here? In this thread?
I was thinking something else, especially since this would not be relevant to this particular topic.
You are attempting to create a "more correct" (albeit fudged with other information sources) view of the Enterprise interiors.
I work with information in a broader sense.
By 'same vein', I mean non-adherence to fan expectations.
As for Mr. Jein; I disagree with his conclusions regarding nomenclature completely (among many other things I disagree with in fandom - including the entire nature of NCC numbering - which initself would call the Wrath of Khan upon me).
I'll preface with this caveat:
I do not attempt to "make things fit even if I have to fudge it". I go by what I am given, and I go only by TOS (I exclude even the movies - this means for me that the work-bee pods in your schematics are right out, but that's a personal issue).
I am partial to the animated Trek quite a bit as well FWIW.
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But, back on topic; it's good that you are using as accurate schematics as possible to begin with. How long has this project been going on?
I was wondering where the Ion Pod (your Sensor Pods?) is located since it plays such an important role in an episode and must be jettisoned.
It's nice to see the Phasers and Torpedoes both located in the lower section of the primary hull where they are shown to be in the series, rather than in funky little nubs and generally not having things in places were they absolutely should not be.
Thanks for that!
Not so sure about the escape pods though. Seems too TNGish for my tastes - same for forward observation lounge, warp plasma and the ejection shaft for the matter/anti-matter core (the whole core idea itself really). Actually there are alot of items on your schematics that are either directly Movie related or TNG and beyond specific. But, hey, it's better than what is currently given, so props for that.
I'd love to see someone do *just* TOS information schematics. I would, but I have no artistic skill there.
Kudos to those here that do! :thumbsup:
How often are your plans updated?
Here? In this thread?
I was thinking something else, especially since this would not be relevant to this particular topic.
You are attempting to create a "more correct" (albeit fudged with other information sources) view of the Enterprise interiors.
I work with information in a broader sense.
By 'same vein', I mean non-adherence to fan expectations.
As for Mr. Jein; I disagree with his conclusions regarding nomenclature completely (among many other things I disagree with in fandom - including the entire nature of NCC numbering - which initself would call the Wrath of Khan upon me).
I'll preface with this caveat:
I do not attempt to "make things fit even if I have to fudge it". I go by what I am given, and I go only by TOS (I exclude even the movies - this means for me that the work-bee pods in your schematics are right out, but that's a personal issue).
I am partial to the animated Trek quite a bit as well FWIW.
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But, back on topic; it's good that you are using as accurate schematics as possible to begin with. How long has this project been going on?
I was wondering where the Ion Pod (your Sensor Pods?) is located since it plays such an important role in an episode and must be jettisoned.
It's nice to see the Phasers and Torpedoes both located in the lower section of the primary hull where they are shown to be in the series, rather than in funky little nubs and generally not having things in places were they absolutely should not be.
Thanks for that!
Not so sure about the escape pods though. Seems too TNGish for my tastes - same for forward observation lounge, warp plasma and the ejection shaft for the matter/anti-matter core (the whole core idea itself really). Actually there are alot of items on your schematics that are either directly Movie related or TNG and beyond specific. But, hey, it's better than what is currently given, so props for that.
I'd love to see someone do *just* TOS information schematics. I would, but I have no artistic skill there.
Kudos to those here that do! :thumbsup:
How often are your plans updated?
If I were to only go by what was in the original series, we'd end up with a very weird ship, because the technical data within the confines of the show is actually rather sparse, vague, and sometimes downright contradictory. Look at the Star Trek universe as a whole, however, and avoid the pitfalls of TOS snobbery and certain things tend to fall into line and allow one to make better sense of the aforementioned technical data from the original show (or at least cook up reasonable explanations for most of the more oddball references).
To answer the specific questions, this project has been going on for a few years, with some fits and starts and some periods of sustained progress (unfortunately, it's currently stuck in one of the fits).
The ion pods are in the small hangar bay just aft of the bridge, and are deployed via a large umbilical (something like a clothes dryer hose around three or four feet in diameter). In the circumstances described in "Court Martial", Finney would have sild down the umbilical from the pod back into the ship before the pod was jettisoned, whereupon he jumped into the nearby turbolift and hid out for the bulk of the episode.
Regarding the phasers, I'm not assuming that those are the only phasers the ship is armed with ("Balance of Terror" makes direct reference to midship and aft phasers). The forward banks are just the most prominent and the most powerful (and ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly" quite clearly dealt with the issue of aft weapons, so I've included them too, in the areas that seemed most logical and closest to what was shown on screen and still worked). Other phaser emitters would be on other nondecript parts of the hull, and not especially relevant for the plans, since they're for familiarization purposes for newly assigned personnel who presumably wouldn't need to know about such things (unless their job required it, in which case, they'd be given more detailed information from their supervisor).
Regarding the escape pods and the workbee: This is the Enterprise, not the Titanic. There's gonna be some emergency egress systems in place for the crew (plus it helps explain that rust colored half-ring on the upper surface of the saucer). As for the workbee, it's a pretty straightforward technical design, and something like a workbee would be like a forklift or front end loader; the controls and some of the internal systems may change over time, but the overall design is gonna stay the same (apparently, Petri Bloomqvist feels the same way, since he was the one I stole the idea from of that workbee docking bay under the main hangar bay).
and certain things tend to fall into line and allow one to make better sense of the aforementioned technical data from the original show (or at least cook up reasonable explanations for most of the more oddball references).To answer the specific questions, this project has been going on for a few years, with some fits and starts and some periods of sustained progress (unfortunately, it's currently stuck in one of the fits).
The ion pods are in the small hangar bay just aft of the bridge, and are deployed via a large umbilical (something like a clothes dryer hose around three or four feet in diameter). In the circumstances described in "Court Martial", Finney would have sild down the umbilical from the pod back into the ship before the pod was jettisoned, whereupon he jumped into the nearby turbolift and hid out for the bulk of the episode.
Regarding the phasers, I'm not assuming that those are the only phasers the ship is armed with ("Balance of Terror" makes direct reference to midship and aft phasers). The forward banks are just the most prominent and the most powerful (and ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly" quite clearly dealt with the issue of aft weapons, so I've included them too, in the areas that seemed most logical and closest to what was shown on screen and still worked). Other phaser emitters would be on other nondecript parts of the hull, and not especially relevant for the plans, since they're for familiarization purposes for newly assigned personnel who presumably wouldn't need to know about such things (unless their job required it, in which case, they'd be given more detailed information from their supervisor).
Regarding the escape pods and the workbee: This is the Enterprise, not the Titanic. There's gonna be some emergency egress systems in place for the crew (plus it helps explain that rust colored half-ring on the upper surface of the saucer). As for the workbee, it's a pretty straightforward technical design, and something like a workbee would be like a forklift or front end loader; the controls and some of the internal systems may change over time, but the overall design is gonna stay the same (apparently, Petri Bloomqvist feels the same way, since he was the one I stole the idea from of that workbee docking bay under the main hangar bay).
You mean like only 1 transporter (don't recall Kirk saying transporter room 4 or 8 or 27 or whatever, it was always simply "transporter room") and things like that?
Not so weird.
No, thanks.
Too many things throughout the movies, TNG and beyond are just simply *wrong*!
In keeping with the "Wagontrain to the Stars" theme, the old girl, 1701, was a big, bad iron-horse Harley-Davidson. TNG and beyond rode on stubborn mules.
That's just for starters!
I'll remain a snob (and proud of it), thanks again.
Why drink wine-coolers when I can have champagne?
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Thanks for the answers! :thumbsup:
Kinda what I was figuring, going on what I was seeing in your schematics. Still interested in how this turns out, regardless. Sorry it seems to have hit a snag.
Hope things pick up.
