Deadline reporting new Trek series, what about fan productions?

[SuperSpaceMan]

I agree with this.

Me to... I just don't think it's gonna happen.

By the time they film the first act to use for promotion to get the 660k for the second half, it maybe to close to the new series premiere. It's interesting to see what they will do. My opinion is to make the film with the 500k they just got from the indiegogo campaign since they already spent the 660k from the KS drive.

Alec has a get out of jail free card, because he can cite the new series is why he had to make it on half the budget he wanted. The longer he waits, the more backers will sharpen there pitchforks.

Actually Alec is in a pretty good position right now... if CBS dries up funding for fan films, If your Alec Peters, why should you care if your fan film can't be made. You have your Studio, you have your equipment...

Axanar at this point really is just a means to an end (Aries Studios) an end he pretty much already reached....

So if CBS pulls the plug, so what...

 

[Tom]

I guess you should worry about your own project as well then, Tom - Renegades is in the exact same boat as Axanar. As far as I have read your current fundraiser, you are also trying to raise more then a million dollars to fully fund your episodes 2 and 3 (which are connected as far as I know - doing only one would left fans hanging in the middle) - so pretty much exactly what Axanar is doing.

Thing is, if our Kickstarter fails then fans don't pay anything, and that is it for STR. If it succeeds we can shoot Episode 2, then we will have to decide whether or not it's still viable (based on how much we get) to do Episode 3, we could end up tweaking the story and making Episode 2 the final story. There are a few possibilities.

I think Axanar already got the funds from Indiegogo. The funds received on Indiegogo after the campaign (Indemand mode) has ended, they collect every month (have to double check the frequency of payments) I think. You can keep the Indemand option on indefinitely I believe, if you wanted to.

The decision for Alex is to do the whole film for 500k or try another drive in 2016 after the first half Axanar is filmed. To me, that second option is very risky and could have disastrous consequences.

 

[Tom]

Me to... I just don't think it's gonna happen.

By the time they film the first act to use for promotion to get the 660k for the second half, it maybe to close to the new series premiere. It's interesting to see what they will do. My opinion is to make the film with the 500k they just got from the indiegogo campaign since they already spent the 660k from the KS drive.

Alec has a get out of jail free card, because he can cite the new series is why he had to make it on half the budget he wanted. The longer he waits, the more backers will sharpen there pitchforks.

Actually Alec is in a pretty good position right now... if CBS dries up funding for fan films, If your Alec Peters, why should you care if your fan film can't be made. You have your Studio, you have your equipment...

Axanar at this point really is just a means to an end (Aries Studios) an end he pretty much already reached....

So if CBS pulls the plug, so what...

Donor backlash, lawsuits (possibly class action). If you donated a $1000 lets say, and you don't get the film, what would you do? Or only how about only getting half the whole film?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

By the time they film the first act to use for promotion to get the 660k for the second half, it maybe to close to the new series premiere. It's interesting to see what they will do. My opinion is to make the film with the 500k they just got from the indiegogo campaign since they already spent the 660k from the KS drive.

Alec has a get out of jail free card, because he can cite the new series is why he had to make it on half the budget he wanted. The longer he waits, the more backers will sharpen there pitchforks.

Actually Alec is in a pretty good position right now... if CBS dries up funding for fan films, If your Alec Peters, why should you care if your fan film can't be made. You have your Studio, you have your equipment...

Axanar at this point really is just a means to an end (Aries Studios) an end he pretty much already reached....

So if CBS pulls the plug, so what...

Donor backlash, possible lawsuits. If you donated a $1000 lets say, and you don't get the film, what would you do? Or only how about only getting half the whole film?

What donor backlash could there be? There is no guarantee a product funded through Kickstarter, or Indigogo will be made... He can conveniently blame CBS and their new series, and move on to paying productions....

I guess there could be donor lawsuits, but it's not like he hasn't faced those before.... He dissolved Propworx when he owed MGM 400K only to start it back up, once the bankruptcy was discharged...

And all he really has to do is demonstrate in good faith he tried to deliver on the project.... Every kickstarter has a very clear disclaimer saying the project could fail, and the Axanar Kickstarters make it clear that CBS presents a risk....

 

[Tom]

I understand that, but he used fans money to create a business (studio) for himself first. Owing MGM is one thing, but pissing off thousands of Star Trek fans pretty bad in my book.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I understand that, but he used fans money to create a business (studio) for himself first. Owing MGM is one thing, but pissing off thousands of Star Trek fans pretty bad in my book.

But that's what that first kickstarter was all about... creating Ares Studios... it wasn't about the film..... It was never about the film.....

 

[Tom]

I understand that, but he used fans money to create a business (studio) for himself first. Owing MGM is one thing, but pissing off thousands of Star Trek fans pretty bad in my book.

But that's what that first kickstarter was all about... creating Ares Studios... it wasn't about the film..... It was never about the film.....

Riiiiigggghhhhtt..(doing best Dr Evil impression)

 

[Jedman67]

I understand that, but he used fans money to create a business (studio) for himself first. Owing MGM is one thing, but pissing off thousands of Star Trek fans pretty bad in my book.

But that's what that first kickstarter was all about... creating Ares Studios... it wasn't about the film..... It was never about the film.....

I've been following Axanar since shortly after Prelude came out, which I quite enjoyed. They were pretty clear that they wanted the Axanar film to be professional quality with studio-quality sets and equipment, and building that studio was a prerequisite for making the movie. I don't know what the costs of renting vs. buying a studio space for the 2 or so years needed for pre, production and post, but others have chimed in that it wouldn't be significantly cheaper.
(and for god's sake, STOP BLOGGING ABOUT THE STUPID CAT!!!)

 

[northstar]

I guess you should worry about your own project as well then, Tom - Renegades is in the exact same boat as Axanar. As far as I have read your current fundraiser, you are also trying to raise more then a million dollars to fully fund your episodes 2 and 3 (which are connected as far as I know - doing only one would left fans hanging in the middle) - so pretty much exactly what Axanar is doing.

Thing is, if our Kickstarter fails then fans don't pay anything, and that is it for STR. If it succeeds we can shoot Episode 2, then we will have to decide whether or not it's still viable (based on how much we get) to do Episode 3, we could end up tweaking the story and making Episode 2 the final story. There are a few possibilities.

I think Axanar already got the funds from Indiegogo. The funds received on Indiegogo after the campaign (Indemand mode) has ended, they collect every month (have to double check the frequency of payments) I think. You can keep the Indemand option on indefinitely I believe, if you wanted to.

The decision for Alex is to do the whole film for 500k or try another drive in 2016 after the first half Axanar is filmed. To me, that second option is very risky and could have disastrous consequences.

If your Kickstarter succeeds (and i hope it does, I would love to see more of Renegades) and "only" gets 350K, you are pretty much in the same boat. You have enough money for the production, but no money for the next episode (which is pretty inconvenient for a 2-parter), and no money for the post process of both episodes. Axanar at least has enough money to finalize the first half of their film - and once that is done, I am sure there will be a way to get the whole thing done. They are all geeks like we are and want this thing finished.

Despite all that speculation right now, I honestly don´t think CBS will do anything about fanfilms. The backlash of fans would be enormous - and they are basically who they are targeting with their "All access". Who else but a Trekkie would pay 6$ a month to watch Trek?

 

[USS Intrepid]

That's fair.

I was, however, talking more about the more vocal independent producers.

I suspected you were, but I think it applies to everyone. Nobody knows how this will play out. I think it's reasonable for everyone to take a wait and see attitude.

 

[Tommunist]

Despite all that speculation right now, I honestly don´t think CBS will do anything about fanfilms. The backlash of fans would be enormous - and they are basically who they are targeting with their "All access". Who else but a Trekkie would pay 6$ a month to watch Trek?

If one has to sign up for CBS All Access to watch, it's one more reason to cut the cord of traditional pay-tv. And there are vested interests against that. Cable and satellite companies won't be happy, and many CBS affiliate stations won't be either.

A lot can happen in a year's time, so I think there's still a chance plans can change.

I certainly hope this doesn't stop fan films from being made.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I understand that, but he used fans money to create a business (studio) for himself first. Owing MGM is one thing, but pissing off thousands of Star Trek fans pretty bad in my book.

But that's what that first kickstarter was all about... creating Ares Studios... it wasn't about the film..... It was never about the film.....

I've been following Axanar since shortly after Prelude came out, which I quite enjoyed. They were pretty clear that they wanted the Axanar film to be professional quality with studio-quality sets and equipment, and building that studio was a prerequisite for making the movie. I don't know what the costs of renting vs. buying a studio space for the 2 or so years needed for pre, production and post, but others have chimed in that it wouldn't be significantly cheaper.
(and for god's sake, STOP BLOGGING ABOUT THE STUPID CAT!!!)

If your really interested in what Axanar's initial ask was, I recommend the way back machine..... They were only asking 70k for a facility that they represented they had (which later fell through).

 

[CRM-114]

We aren't talking big budget features.

Depends on your definition of "big budget." If CBS chose to produce, say, a dozen episodes at the adjusted price point of a TNG episode, they'd be spending about forty-four million and would nearly double Axanar's current budget in a single outing. Vastly in excess of anything Axanar could ever hope to raise by crowdfunding.

Forty Four million?

Lets look at your math here... That's roughly 3.7 Million per episode. Assuming they release these at one per week, that's a budget of 14.7 million per four weeks (month). Each CBS All Access Subscription costs $6.00 per month, that means they would have to grow their service from currently at 100,000 subscribers to roughly 2.45 million subscribers, JUST to break even. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-all-access-streaming-service-780636

While, I could see CBS investing in this series with them breaking even, or even loosing a little bit of money right up front, off of US Distribution, I can't imagine the CBS Board letting them take a significant loss on this project, under he premise that they would make it up later down the line.

International sales would help insure the series makes money. Hollywood has finally begun to recognize that foreign markets can't be treated as an afterthought anymore.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Depends on your definition of "big budget." If CBS chose to produce, say, a dozen episodes at the adjusted price point of a TNG episode, they'd be spending about forty-four million and would nearly double Axanar's current budget in a single outing. Vastly in excess of anything Axanar could ever hope to raise by crowdfunding.

Forty Four million?

Lets look at your math here... That's roughly 3.7 Million per episode. Assuming they release these at one per week, that's a budget of 14.7 million per four weeks (month). Each CBS All Access Subscription costs $6.00 per month, that means they would have to grow their service from currently at 100,000 subscribers to roughly 2.45 million subscribers, JUST to break even. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-all-access-streaming-service-780636

While, I could see CBS investing in this series with them breaking even, or even loosing a little bit of money right up front, off of US Distribution, I can't imagine the CBS Board letting them take a significant loss on this project, under he premise that they would make it up later down the line.

International sales would help insure the series makes money. Hollywood has finally begun to recognize that foreign markets can't be treated as an afterthought anymore.

CBS Studios gets a significantly smaller piece of the pie on international distribution than they do states side...

 

[martok2112]

I realize how cynical this may sound, but:

What if Paramount/CBS stepped in with the following:

[theoretical quote=Paramount/CBS]You may continue to make your fan films with the following caveat to be seen before the opening credits and after the closing credits:

"This fan work is a non-profit labor of love and nothing more. It has no place in established canon, nor do we try to claim that it does. It is also not to be confused with the official Star Trek that only exists on television or in theaters. Official ranges from The Original Series through the JJ Abrams films. The only exception is the Animated Series. We respect all continuity and canon established in and around all official productions."
[/theoretical quote]

If such a caveat were required before and after the playback of each and every fan film production, it'll put things in perspective for those who aren't so blind to realize those truths.

It'll also yank a knot in the asses of those who think their own productions are so self-important, and in such competition with one another (and I can think of a couple) due to inflated or bruised egos, that it might just get them to say: "Damn it! We were so close to convincing everyone that what we're doing is real Star Trek!"

Like I said.... cynical.... but fair.

 

[Philip Guyott]

A few months ago Renegades announced after their meeting with CBS:

“As promised to our backers, we engaged the top entertainment attorney in LA who has exceptional connections to CBS and Paramount. For reasons we are not able to disclose, CBS cannot move forward with Star Trek Renegades at this time – or any Star Trek series for that matter.”

Source: http://startrekrenegades.com/home/be-a-renegade-support-the-ongoing-internet-tv-series

I assume the ‘reasons’ why they could not consider other proposals for Star Trek series at that time are now known. CBS were already planning a new series.

 

[Maurice]

"This work is purely fan fiction and has no connection to official or licensed Star Trek material and may not be sold or otherwise commercially exploited."

More direct.

 

[Mudd]

Forty Four million?

Lets look at your math here... That's roughly 3.7 Million per episode. Assuming they release these at one per week, that's a budget of 14.7 million per four weeks (month). Each CBS All Access Subscription costs $6.00 per month, that means they would have to grow their service from currently at 100,000 subscribers to roughly 2.45 million subscribers, JUST to break even. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-all-access-streaming-service-780636

While, I could see CBS investing in this series with them breaking even, or even loosing a little bit of money right up front, off of US Distribution, I can't imagine the CBS Board letting them take a significant loss on this project, under he premise that they would make it up later down the line.

International sales would help insure the series makes money. Hollywood has finally begun to recognize that foreign markets can't be treated as an afterthought anymore.

CBS Studios gets a significantly smaller piece of the pie on international distribution than they do states side...

Yes, but according to then-CEO of Paramount Television Mel Harris, international video distribution deals made TNG a guaranteed no-loss proposition in its first season and thus got them the go-ahead.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I realize how cynical this may sound, but:

What if Paramount/CBS stepped in with the following:

[theoretical quote=Paramount/CBS]You may continue to make your fan films with the following caveat to be seen before the opening credits and after the closing credits:

"This fan work is a non-profit labor of love and nothing more. It has no place in established canon, nor do we try to claim that it does. It is also not to be confused with the official Star Trek that only exists on television or in theaters. Official ranges from The Original Series through the JJ Abrams films. The only exception is the Animated Series. We respect all continuity and canon established in and around all official productions."
[/theoretical quote]

If such a caveat were required before and after the playback of each and every fan film production, it'll put things in perspective for those who aren't so blind to realize those truths.

It'll also yank a knot in the asses of those who think their own productions are so self-important, and in such competition with one another (and I can think of a couple) due to inflated or bruised egos, that it might just get them to say: "Damn it! We were so close to convincing everyone that what we're doing is real Star Trek!"

Like I said.... cynical.... but fair.

CBS can't do that. If they did, it would seem like they were giving people permission to use their IP, and basically weakening their claim to the IP itself....

 

[martok2112]

"This work is purely fan fiction and has no connection to official or licensed Star Trek material and may not be sold or otherwise commercially exploited."

More direct.

Very succinct.

I tend to inject a little humor into my caveats when I do my own works.... something to the effect of:

"This work is a labor of love. No monetary gains sought. Nor do I want to step on the toes of generally good ideas."