Deadline reporting new Trek series, what about fan productions?

[SuperSpaceMan]

Re: Deadline reporting new Trek series, what about fan productions

CBS isn't going to compete for fan dollars with their own IP... The 1m Axanar has raised may be roughly what an episode may be budgets for, but that's money CBS doesn't want to have to compete for... I could see CBS ending the large scale crowd funding for fan films. Heck, I have a hard time understanding how they haven't done that already.. Kickstarter, indiggogo, Amazon payments have all made commercial dollars on CBS IP.....

 

[Christopher Miles]

This is great news.(except for the streaming part- How many times will Star Trek be asked to carry the water for a new distribution model)?


Today just happens to be my birthday- and I'm as old as Trek anyhow- born in '66 and all.

Thanks DCR for the news- I saw it here first.

AND Thanks to all the fan films for keeping the flame alive for episodic Trek.

Kutzman as exec? Don't know whether that's a good or bad thing.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I seem to recall, in 1995 or so, how Paramount went on the warpath to shut down (or at least render utterly worthless) every single Star Trek fan website in existence to try to force everyone to use the new Startrek.com. The backlash was... whew.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

As the publisher of Orion Press from 1979 - 2013, I've never run into any trouble with Paramount, Gulf+Western or Simon & Schuster, even though I published, well, A LOT of fanzines. I see the same thing happening with the smaller fan films, such as my own. We're small potatoes, and really not worth the effort.

As far as the dreaded "website shutdown of 1995," they never once contacted me about the Orion Press website. Of course, we weren't hosting images, videos or soundclips like the sites they targeted were, and therein again is an important difference.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

As the publisher of Orion Press from 1979 - 2013, I've never run into any trouble with Paramount, Gulf+Western or Simon & Schuster, even though I published, well, A LOT of fanzines. I see the same thing happening with the smaller fan films, such as my own. We're small potatoes, and really not worth the effort.

As far as the dreaded "website shutdown of 1995," they never once contacted me about the Orion Press website. Of course, we weren't hosting images, videos or soundclips like the sites they targeted were, and therein again is an important difference.

You're not raising hundreds of thousands of dollars on Kickstarter, or indiggogo.... No one is profiting off of CBS IP in the production of Potemkin, other than acting students getting some fun roles to play. I do think the bigger projects might present a problem for CBS, and I think instead of dropping the hammer on the actual productions themselves, they would go after the crowd sourcing sites sending then cease and desist letters on the campaigns.... That way they aren't telling the actual projects no, but putting an effective end to fundraising....

 

[BigJake]

There's no reason to cut off fundraising for a project you either don't disapprove of or don't care enough about to make it actionable (especially since the obvious response from crowdfunding sites would be "if you have a legal issue with the project in question, take it up with them"). I would expect them to either send cease-and-desists to the actual projects or not at all. I'm betting not at all or it would have happened already (for example in the case of the biggest fundraiser, Axanar, when or before Prelude came out, since that was a relatively large project in itself and the centrepiece of subsequent fundraising).

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

There's no reason to cut off fundraising for a project you don't disapprove of (especially since the obvious response from crowdfunding sites would be "if you have a legal issue with the project in question, take it up with them"). I would expect them to either send cease-and-desists to the actual projects or not at all. I'm betting not at all or it would have happened already (for example in the case of the biggest fundraiser, Axanar, when or before Prelude came out, since that was a relatively large project in itself and the centrepiece of subsequent fundraising).

Up until now, Fan films haven't taken money from CBS... That changes next January... And yes, going after the crowd funding sites with the C&D would be the smart thing... They could say they are not opposed to fan films, but they are opposed to for profit companies profiting off of their IP, which Kickstarter and Others do, every time there is a crowdfunding campaign... Again, that hasn't taken money from CBS yet... But I have already seen a number of people who contributed to axanar say they wouldn't pay for CBS all access....

 

[BigJake]

Up until now, Fan films haven't taken money from CBS... That changes next January...

I doubt that very much and I think going after the crowdfunding sites would be largely futile, since the crowdfunding sites would ask the very reasonable question as to why no cease-and-desists have been issued to actual projects if fundraising for them is meant to be somehow legally objectionable. I'm not pretending to be a lawyer but I can't see how there wouldn't be a rather obvious loophole there that would make attacking Kickstarter or Indiegogo a non-starter. You either have a problem with a project or you don't. You can't really say "we're fine with this project as long as it doesn't raise funds to accomplish anything" and I don't see why CBS would be the least bit interested in threading that needle.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Up until now, Fan films haven't taken money from CBS... That changes next January...

I doubt that very much and I think going after the crowdfunding sites would be largely futile, since the crowdfunding sites would ask the very reasonable question as to why no cease-and-desists have been issued to actual projects if fundraising for them is meant to be somehow legally objectionable. I'm not pretending to be a lawyer but I can't see how there wouldn't be a rather obvious loophole there that would make attacking Kickstarter or Indiegogo a non-starter. You either have a problem with a project or you don't. You can't really say "we're fine with this project as long as it doesn't raise funds to accomplish anything" and I don't see why CBS would be the least bit interested in threading that needle.

Fan films don't "profit" off of CBS IP.... But the crowd funding sites do. That's the difference.

 

[BigJake]

If that's meant to be the difference, why would it be "changing" on January? That would have been true and cause for action from the outset.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

If that's meant to be the difference, why would it be "changing" on January? That would have been true and cause for action from the outset.

Because until January 2017, CBS hasn't had to compete with its own IP....

 

[BigJake]

Again, if any fanfilm was meaningfully in conflict with / a competitor for CBS' IP, or likely to be, I'd wager that would have been evident a long time ago. Especially given that the new series has to have been in the works for some months prior to announcement.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Again, if any fanfilm was meaningfully in conflict with / a competitor for CBS' IP, or likely to be, I'd wager that would have been evident a long time ago. Especially given that the new series has to have been in the works for some months prior to announcement.

Except the last big money crowd funding campaign was Axanar back in early summer.... which was some months prior to the announcement...

CBS isn't going to go after projects individually, when Lucas Films did that, it created all sorts of Bad Blood in the community... No by going after the companies profiting of of the USE of Star Trek IP CBS can dry up the funds for fan films, and the only ones that remain will be the lower budget ones...

 

[BigJake]

Near as I can tell the only reason to pick January is that it's when Axanar starts filming? But I don't see that being in any way an interesting cut-off point to CBS. If Axanar's fundraising had hit the radar at any point in the process as some actual threat to their IP then there's no earthly reason for them not to have taken action at the time, doing so would have removed any perception of a "conflict" before the question was even asked and it's not like the number of people invested in Axanar is all that significant, statistically speaking.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Near as I can tell the only reason to pick January is that it's when Axanar starts filming? But I don't see that being in any way an interesting cut-off point to CBS. If Axanar's fundraising had hit the radar at any point in the process as some actual threat to their IP then there's no earthly reason for them not to have taken action at the time, doing so would have removed any perception of a "conflict" before the question was even asked and it's not like the number of people invested in Axanar is all that significant, statistically speaking.

January 2017, is when the new series will make it's debut...

 

[BigJake]

Okay, sorry, next January, I get you... but so what? The putative timelines have to have been evident to CBS long before now if they're aware of them or care about them. The logical conclusion is that they don't care, so your argument is still failing to make any sense.

Unless you believe that Axanar is going to represent some actual monetary competition to the new series? But why would you believe that? I could be reasonably called something of an Axanerd at this point and I don't even believe that.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Okay, but so what? The putative timelines have to have been evident to CBS long before now if they're aware of them or care about them. The logical conclusion is that they don't care, so your argument is still failing to make any sense.

Unless you believe that Axanar is going to represent some actual monetary competition to the new series? But why would you believe that? I could be reasonably called something of an Axanerd at this point and I don't even believe that.

Let me put it this way....

Up until now, CBS has had nothing to really lose by turning a blind eye to fan films. They had nothing in production right?

So in January 2017, we have a new Star Trek Series, however, instead of being on broadcast television, to access this Series, your going to have to subscribe to CBS All Access. Assuming a monthly cost of $6.00 per month, CBS is going to need a million or so subscribers at the minimum I would imagine to pay for this production (Maybe less if they include advertising)

With Axanar, and Renegades, and other Crowed Funded Projects, CBS with this new project is going to be competing for viewers, and subscribers (MONEY) with it's own IP.

I can't imagine they would let that stand, so they can go after all the Fan Film Projects with C&D orders, the problem with that is, we saw with lucas, and Star Wars films, and Marvel and a few fan films there, is that you stand to alienate a lot of your fan base.

And really CBS doesn't care about fan films, as long as it isn't taking money out of their pocket, so by going after the for profit companies which host CBS IP, and profit off of that IP, they can say that they aren't necessarily opposed to fan films, while effectively shutting down the competition.....

And Yes, Axanar is competition for CBS..

 

[BigJake]

I'm sorry, there is just no way that Axanar, let alone Renegades, is going to be genuinely competing with CBS for viewers. The amount of viewers that would be true about is incredibly tiny, and I expect CBS is showing no signs of worrying about it because that proposition is frankly nuts. Love me some Axanar but it's a complement to official Trek, it's not ever likely to be credible competition against it (however much some coterie of "Axanar movement" nerds might wish to the contrary).

Axanar's fundraising is impressive by fanfilm standards but it's a fraction of the cost of a single episode of TNG. It's small-indie-film territory, it's just different realms.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I'm sorry, there is just no way that Axanar, let alone Renegades, is going to be genuinely competing with CBS for viewers. The amount of viewers that would be true about is incredibly tiny, and I expect CBS is showing no signs of worrying about it because that proposition is frankly nuts. Love me some Axanar but it's a complement to official Trek, it's not ever likely to be credible competition against it (however much some coterie of "Axanar movement" nerds might wish to the contrary).

Axanar's fundraising is impressive by fanfilm standards but it's a fraction of the cost of a single episode of TNG. It's just different realms.

Actually with a 2 Million dollar budget, Axanar is clocking in at some 700k over the average single episode of TNG (1.3 million)

 

[BigJake]

Assuming it actually reaches that mark, the average single episode of TNG in today's dollars would cost well over that. And we're talking one episode of a TV show in the late Eighties. Competing with a flagship CBS production today? No. It isn't happening.