Deadline reporting new Trek series, what about fan productions?

[SuperSpaceMan]

Assuming it actually reaches that mark, the average single episode of TNG in today's dollars would cost well over that. And we're talking one episode of a TV show in the late Eighties. Competing with a flagship CBS production today? No. It isn't happening.

You mean back when there were less than a handful of effects houses in the industry... when CGI required days of rendering time for a minute of sequence....

The things that made TNG most costly are SIGNIFICANTLY more affordable today, than they were in the 80's/90's.... There are hundreds of effects houses, and free lancers who are capable of doing work SIGNIFICANTLY better than what we saw in TNG... Heck, it was an Enterprise line producer that put together Axanar's budget, an it's still running around the same cost as an episode of Enterprise....

 

[BigJake]

The technical edge of a major studio is just as pronounced today as it was then; there's a good reason the NuTrek films cost what they did, for example. The benchmark has risen and while I firmly expect Axanar can hit the benchmark of broadcast-worthy Trek from the Nineties, no, I don't remotely believe it can or will compete with big- or even moderately-big budget SF in the current era*. That's fantasy.

* I mean, I do believe it may be able to deliver a better story, sure. One of the primary factors that interests people in Axanar, and Kurtzman isn't exactly (due respect to our NuTrek stalwarts) intimidating competition in that regard. But in terms of basic production values and viewership share, Axanar being "competition" for CBS is dreaming in HD.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

The technical edge of a major studio is just as pronounced today as it was then; there's a good reason the NuTrek films cost what they did, for example. The benchmark has risen and while I firmly expect Axanar can hit the benchmark of broadcast-worthy Trek from the Nineties, no, I don't remotely believe it can or will compete with big-budget SF in the current era. That's fantasy.

We aren't talking big budget features. CBS isn't going to throw 190 Million at this Series, the way Paramount did for Into Darkness... We are talking about a series that will air on a platform that currently only has 100K or so subscribers.... Even if newly produced Star Trek Content can grow that to 1,000,000 subscribers, the platform would only be bringing in 6,000,000 a month. I can't see CBS green lighting this thing if it costs more than 2 million an episode..

 

[BigJake]

We aren't talking big budget features.

Depends on your definition of "big budget." If CBS chose to produce, say, a dozen episodes at the adjusted price point of a TNG episode, they'd be spending about forty-four million and would nearly double Axanar's current budget in a single outing. Vastly in excess of anything Axanar could ever hope to raise by crowdfunding.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I would like to hope that if CBS/Paramount does drop the hammer on STC, NV, Axanar and the others, it won't be "You have to stop work RIGHT THIS MINUTE." More like "You have until Christmas of next year to finish/release what you're working on right now." It'd still be sad, but would go some way to avoid bad blood and a fan backlash.

 

[Barbreader]

I would like to hope that if CBS/Paramount does drop the hammer on STC, NV, Axanar and the others, it won't be "You have to stop work RIGHT THIS MINUTE." More like "You have until Christmas of next year to finish/release what you're working on right now." It'd still be sad, but would go some way to avoid bad blood and a fan backlash.

This is both an interesting idea and one with a lot of history in intellectual property law.

 

[northstar]

What would CBS gain from getting rid of fan productions? Pretty much nothing! What would they loose: A lot! Not only would it generate an uproar in the fandom, it would actively hurt sales for the movie and it would surely prevent a lot of fans getting that "all access" subscription and just pirating it. I would not be surprised if the new series is going to be pirated even more then GoT or Walking Dead is already.

What they should do in order to protect their property (and make an additional dime) is work together with the fans. A few of the fan productions that stand out could be shown on that new network in a special section, so the casual viewer knows it´s not "official" trek and the IP gets not watered down. It wouldn´t cost them a dime - in fact it would bring in money and make everyone happy. A classical win-win situation as opposed to a total loose-loose situation if they take out the ban-hammer.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

It's been just a few weeks since CBS legal told STC to change its logo. They must have known this new series deal was in the works at the time. Why would they bother making a fan series rearrange its deck chairs if they were getting ready to sink the ship?

 

[Warped9]

It's been just a few weeks since CBS legal told STC to change its logo. They must have known this new series deal was in the works at the time. Why would they bother making a fan series rearrange its deck chairs if they were getting ready to sink the ship?

Change its logo? What did I miss?



Oh, wait, I checked. The logo is changed on their FB page, but not the opening and closing credits? Or do we have to wait until Ep. 6 to find out?

Seems rather dumb, but then thats lawyers for you.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

We aren't talking big budget features.

Depends on your definition of "big budget." If CBS chose to produce, say, a dozen episodes at the adjusted price point of a TNG episode, they'd be spending about forty-four million and would nearly double Axanar's current budget in a single outing. Vastly in excess of anything Axanar could ever hope to raise by crowdfunding.

Forty Four million?

Lets look at your math here... That's roughly 3.7 Million per episode. Assuming they release these at one per week, that's a budget of 14.7 million per four weeks (month). Each CBS All Access Subscription costs $6.00 per month, that means they would have to grow their service from currently at 100,000 subscribers to roughly 2.45 million subscribers, JUST to break even. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-all-access-streaming-service-780636

While, I could see CBS investing in this series with them breaking even, or even loosing a little bit of money right up front, off of US Distribution, I can't imagine the CBS Board letting them take a significant loss on this project, under he premise that they would make it up later down the line.

 

[Mudd]

Well, one thing that's true is that the Trek fan film movement grew rapidly during a period when attention to and investment in the Franchise by its owners was at a low ebb - roughly 2003-2007. And from 2005 until now CBS has been satisfied to collect what it can in licensing and sales of its existing product.

Paramount pretty much ignored fannish Trek products - everything from fanzines to garage model kits for sale - from around 1970 until 1989, when they suddenly clamped down. What changed? Well, ST:TNG had made Star Trek merchandise licenses into hot items, and the licensees expected the studio to protect their exclusivity in exchange for the premium prices they were paying.

So it's silly to try to guess what their attitude toward others' unlicensed use of their IP will be in the next few years.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

What would CBS gain from getting rid of fan productions? Pretty much nothing! What would they loose: A lot! Not only would it generate an uproar in the fandom, it would actively hurt sales for the movie and it would surely prevent a lot of fans getting that "all access" subscription and just pirating it. I would not be surprised if the new series is going to be pirated even more then GoT or Walking Dead is already.

What they should do in order to protect their property (and make an additional dime) is work together with the fans. A few of the fan productions that stand out could be shown on that new network in a special section, so the casual viewer knows it´s not "official" trek and the IP gets not watered down. It wouldn´t cost them a dime - in fact it would bring in money and make everyone happy. A classical win-win situation as opposed to a total loose-loose situation if they take out the ban-hammer.

I don't think CBS really cares about Fan Films... but with some fan films raising a half a million or in the case of Axanar over one million dollars, someone at CBS legal, CBS Financial, and CBS Marketing has to be looking at that as part of their pie. It doesn't matter so much right now, because they are not putting out any new content based on their IP.

But thats going to change, when CBS is putting out new content in a subscriber model. If we were talking the 25K that ST:NV P2 raises or the 100K or so that ST:C raises, it's not so much an issue, but when we are talking half a million or over a million dollars, CBS is going to take interest.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

It's been just a few weeks since CBS legal told STC to change its logo. They must have known this new series deal was in the works at the time. Why would they bother making a fan series rearrange its deck chairs if they were getting ready to sink the ship?

Change its logo? What did I miss?



Oh, wait, I checked. The logo is changed on their FB page, but not the opening and closing credits? Or do we have to wait until Ep. 6 to find out?

Seems rather dumb, but then thats lawyers for you.

I suspect they may be changing it on the titles too, but we'll have to wait and see.

Remember last spring when The White Iris got pulled from YouTube (twice, I believe)? The story that finally came out was this: Some newbie in CBS legal was getting it taken down because he thought it was a real TOS episode!

 

[Tom]

Crowd-funding for big Star Trek productions will be all but dead within a year. For those that have current funding efforts they can still possibly get them done with in the next few months. After that, you will not see many more major drives. I do think that P2 and STC are on level where they can continue there current path but it will get a bit harder for them.

 

[Campe]

If that's the case, Axanar really better stick to their January(?) production start date. (Note: I am not bashing Axanar. However, it's common knowledge they've pushed back the production start to make it "better" on many different occasions. They need to get moving and stop crowdfunding and just do what they can or they'll lose their window.)

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Crowd-funding for big Star Trek productions will be all but dead within a year. For those that have current funding efforts they can still possibly get them done with in the next few months. After that, you will not see many more major drives. I do think that P2 and STC are on level where they can continue there current path but it will get a bit harder for them.

New Voyages shoots for what 20K an episode, Star Trek Continues, 50K....

So, we may see ST:C move back to one release a year... You may also see a return of more creative fundraising... Set tours and such... but, Yea, the basically, all volunteer, truly non profit fan films will be able to continue... the ones where you are paying actors/production personnel not so much... but really, I am surprised CBS even tolerates even that today....

 

[Jedman67]

Depends on your definition of "big budget." If CBS chose to produce, say, a dozen episodes at the adjusted price point of a TNG episode, they'd be spending about forty-four million and would nearly double Axanar's current budget in a single outing. Vastly in excess of anything Axanar could ever hope to raise by crowdfunding.

There's far more than just production costs and subscriber revenue; there's advertising, there's syndication, DVD/BluRay sales....
I believe Voyager's pilot cost around $12 million back in the '90's, and Broken Bow cost between $15-25 million. An average pilot for a new show with new, specialized sets and a fair amount of CG can easily cost $20 - $30 million. Amortizing sets, props and costumes over a 15-20 episode season, the average episode would be at least $6-8 million. That's just Hollywood.

 

[Tom]

Much is this has nothing to do with money and more about advertising. CBS is going to want to make sure they don't see any other Star Trek productions on news sites etc.. They will want to ensure 100 percent attention is on their new series. I do think P2 and STC will be alright when the new show airs, but will have to scale back because there will be a drop in (hopefully not to big) funding.

CBS is taking a risk bringing back Star Trek after 10 years, and a further risk by having be the flagship for a streaming service. They are not going to fuck around when it comes to advertising if other Star Trek productions are also on the internet. they will want to either stop them or make sure there're at a level that it does not hurt them.

If the new ST series was on cable or broadcast TV and not on the internet, then they may be a little bit more lax with internet broadcast fan productions. I just feel that they are going to be more strict because the new series is on an internet streaming service.

It was pointed out to me by a producer friend of mine yesterday, that the next few months, crowd-funding may actually be better. This is because the new series announcement has stirred a lot of attention to Star Trek and people may discover some of the fan productions currently running drives (STR, Axanar, Pike Etc..) and want to contribute since they have to wait 14 months for the new show to come out.

I have also read some comments on Facebook that many people want to support fan productions because they take place in the prime universe and most likely the new series will be in JJ's universe.

So who knows, but a year from now major crowd-funding for Star Trek productions will be almost non existant.

 

[Karzak]

Crowd-funding for big Star Trek productions will be all but dead within a year. For those that have current funding efforts they can still possibly get them done with in the next few months. After that, you will not see many more major drives. I do think that P2 and STC are on level where they can continue there current path but it will get a bit harder for them.

Forgive me Tom, perhaps I'm misreading you but if you knew all this all along (that a new series was coming in 2017) and now believe that because of it, fan films like Axanar and Renegades will have to shut down, why in the world have you remained with the production? Surely there's a better use of your time, especially if you knew in advance the hammer was coming?

If that's the case, Axanar really better stick to their January(?) production start date. (Note: I am not bashing Axanar.

I love that such a simple statement has to be precursored with a disclaimer like that. Oh, we Axanar fans are so cute!

However, it's common knowledge they've pushed back the production start to make it "better" on many different occasions. They need to get moving and stop crowdfunding and just do what they can or they'll lose their window.)

Seriously. High time for Alec Peters/RedOmega and his girlfriend to hit 'pause' on the convention circuit, for Burnett to quit his whining on Facebook and just shoot the thing already.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Crowd-funding for big Star Trek productions will be all but dead within a year. For those that have current funding efforts they can still possibly get them done with in the next few months. After that, you will not see many more major drives. I do think that P2 and STC are on level where they can continue there current path but it will get a bit harder for them.

Forgive me Tom, perhaps I'm misreading you but if you knew all this all along (that a new series was coming in 2017) and now believe that because of it, fan films like Axanar and Renegades will have to shut down, why in the world have you remained with the production? Surely there's a better use of your time, especially if you knew in advance the hammer was coming?

Maybe because there is still a window of opportunity, as brief as it may be for stories to be told.... Who wouldn't take advantage of that, if they could?