Are you saying Citizen Steel didn't stop a train?So, in other words, you can't. Thanks for proving my point.
Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 2
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I said what I said, and I meant what I meant, and you know what you know about what I said when I said. Being intentionally obtuse doesn't change the fact that you couldn't cite a single example of it happening outside of the topic at hand, and somehow that's your "proof." You can keep on being ridiculous about it all you want though.
"Of course 6 + 9 equals 47,201. See, I just proved it by typing it, ergo it does! Herp a derp derp!"
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Do you know something about how the crossover ends that we don't?
All the proof we need is in the show. This isn't science or a legal proceeding. We're talking about a guy on a TV show who can turn into steel and stop a moving train. All that matters is that he can do it. It doesn't matter what Mister Metal can do in his series or Iron Maiden can do in her strip. They aren't Citizen Steel and they aren't on Legends of Tomorrow. Citizen Steel's abilities will be determined by the people who write his adventures. It's really that simple.
"See, I told you 6 + 9 equals 47,201! I said it, and that's all the proof we need."
Kahless the Unforgettable said:
He's got a point though - if your argument is "Steel couldn't stop a train" then you lose because we just saw him do it. If your argument is "he shouldn't be able to because X" then fair enough, but the show has clearly decided that you and X should go get a room if you like each other that much, the rest of us will be watching superheroes thank you.
I don't think that bit in X-Men 2 where Magneto just stops the falling Blackbird is realistic since the crew would be smushed by the sudden deceleration, but the movie wants me to have Sir Ian McKellan's babies because of how awesome Magneto is, so fuck it. (Plus you could say he put up an EM forcefield in the cockpit to cushion them but then you could headcanon something for Steel if you want)
I don't think that bit in X-Men 2 where Magneto just stops the falling Blackbird is realistic since the crew would be smushed by the sudden deceleration, but the movie wants me to have Sir Ian McKellan's babies because of how awesome Magneto is, so fuck it. (Plus you could say he put up an EM forcefield in the cockpit to cushion them but then you could headcanon something for Steel if you want)
Steel couldn't stop the train if the engineer continued to accelerate.
If However, the engineer turned off the forward motility, and pumped the breaks, Steel could have in a small part also been a contributor to the train stopping.
If However, the engineer turned off the forward motility, and pumped the breaks, Steel could have in a small part also been a contributor to the train stopping.
Colossus stops a train:
Citizen Steel stops a train:
End of story.
Citizen Steel stops a train:
End of story.
Colossus can lift/press over a hundred tons.
The force he is opposing that train with is causing dozen of trucks to flail.
We're not even sure if Steel is twice as strong as a historian.
The force he is opposing that train with is causing dozen of trucks to flail.
We're not even sure if Steel is twice as strong as a historian.
In the comics Citizen Steel can lift/press over a hundred tons too. In fact his strength is so great that he wears his costume to restrain his movement and suppress his strength to more manageable levels. During the JSA fight with Gog, Steel removes the top half of his uniform to strike Gog down. He is successful in taking Gog down with a single blow something even Earth-22 Superman couldn't accomplish.
In Legends of Tomorrow his strength is what the writers of each episode want it to be, although I imagine him getting stronger the more he trains and uses/gets familiar with his powers.
Now, now...where would this show be if it had common sense?
That would've derailed the train if the engineer hadn't seen it in time. And aside from killing the train crew, that could've caused a cataclysmic explosion, given what the dwarf-star bullets did. This was more of a "gentle" deceleration, slowing it gradually to a stop.
Which, by the way, kind of explains why Steel was able to do it. He didn't have to have Kryptonian strength, he just needed to be durable and rigid enough to function as a friction brake over a long enough distance dug into the ground in front of the train.
Although we have already seen that Steel has more durability than "steel skin" alone would suggest. After all, he was unharmed by a massive nitroglycerin detonation directly underneath him. The damage caused by an explosion is primarily from the concussive shock propagating through the body. If he'd just had normal squishy human organs under his steel skin, those organs would've been liquefied by the force of the blast. If anything, the rigid exterior might've made the interior damage worse by transmitting and containing the shock even more. So his entire body must be super-durable, not just his skin.
Come to think of it, he would need some degree of superstrength just to move in steel form. I mean, it's steel. That's a hard thing to bend or reshape. So if his outer surface is literally equivalent to steel in its physical properties, he'd be frozen stiff unless his muscles' strength were amplified to the point where he could bend the steel of his bare hands, as it were.
So basically it's the same as Luke Cage. Nominally, Luke's power is just "unbreakable skin," but in practice, he clearly has superhuman strength and resistance to injury as well. The Netflix series offered some vague science about how all of his internal tissues are nearly as durable as his exterior.
No, he doesn't.
The argument was that Steel shouldn't be able to stop a train, because he's never been shown to possess any serious degree of superstrength at all; slightly improved over his human form, yes, but I can't recall a single instance of him having any noteworthy level of strength on the show.
The other guy then said that because he's made of steel he can do it, because all superheroes made of steel can do it, then it's no problem; it's somehow an integral part of being made of steel. I then asked him to prove it by referencing a single other character that could turn into steel but lacked the superstrength or similar power that would allow them to counter a train's momentum. His proof? "Steel did it in this episode."
So no, he doesn't have a point. You can't prove a point by using the point of contention as the god damned proof.
If the writers are just pulling new powers out of their tuchus for him and he now has superstrength, that's fine. But that's exactly what they've done in that case, as before that scene he sure as hell didn't have the strength (or other applicable super power, like immovability, supersonic flight, etc.) to stop a speeding train; he was just some dude with metal skin.
I'm not going to give this show any credit for thinking things out, but we are still learning the limits of his power as he does.
Well.. the original serum used by the german solder clearly gave him super strength.
Being bullet-impenetrable, dynamite-proof and uncrushable is also a kind of superstrength. And the kind he needed – stopping the train didn't require him exerting any force on it, but rather acting like a huge clutch. The scene was humorously unrealistic, but you don't exactly need muscle to pull it off.
He wasn't shown lifting a train, or pushing a train into motion, merely braking one and/or intimidating the engineer.
He wasn't shown lifting a train, or pushing a train into motion, merely braking one and/or intimidating the engineer.
I think I might have a better point than intended by my original humorous comment
Originally it was just a way of saying this
Now other posters have made some interesting points, some even involving SCIENCE!
Though this scene did cross my mind regarding how tough his insides must be.
Seems logical.
I guess Luke be an example of "steel" skinned guy with super-strength.
Yeah this is not a show I look for well thought out plots, powers or anything else.
. But as you say, we don't know much about his powers. Each new episode can expand them. Thats usualy how Superhero stories work. Many of Superman's powers showed up on an episode by episode basis, usually as he needed them. Some were increased over time. Flight, invulnerability and his vision powers were not part of his original power set. So it's a bit shortsighted to think all of Steel's abilities were showcased the first time he went metal. Forgot about that.
More good points.
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I did not know that, so thanks for the information.
I'll still see it as a New 52 Alan Scott homage, though, just because.
Its the other way around - N52 Alan Scott is an homage to his previous son, Obsidian. Originally, Alan was the old school guys from the 40s that had trouble accepting his son coming out of the closet. (He did, after awhile, of course.) Thew N52 Alan Scott isn't old enough to have children, so they retconned it all.
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