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Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 1

I get that they wanted to show how much this group is unprepared for time travel, and how they'd muck things up on their first go-around. But they really should have sidelined Rip Hunter in a better manner. As the episode stands, it looks like he decided to hang around Waverider the whole time and sigh exhaustingly at every turn. Instead they should have had him shot at the end of Part 1 (by Chronos) and spend most of this episode in the Medbay or something.

It would have been neater if one of two things had happened: 1) Doctor Stein actually vaguely remembered meeting his future self and all the craziness that ensued (rewritten to make sure it wasn't too crazy) or 2) Rip admitted to giving the younger Stein some forgetting drug or something. Admittedly, the young Stein apparently did do a healthy amount of drugs, so maybe he forgot the whole adventure naturally.

I don't see why aliens wouldn't exist - although it is odd that only Humans appear to be the Time Masters. Maybe they're waiting to see if they ever get a license to reference Superman, or can fold in Supergirl or something before introducing aliens to their universe (which should be a pretty big deal). When the Legends inevitably go to the future, they should run into some alienesque activity.
 
^I never said aliens didn't exist in the Arrowverse, just that none have been established as being on Earth. Earth is, after all, a very small part of the universe, despite DC's geocentric naming practices for parallel realities.

Hmm... could Earth-1 be a timeline where Krypton hasn't exploded yet/at all? Maybe it differs from Earth-Supergirl because Kal-El, Kara, and Fort Rozz never came to Earth.
 
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Tim Thomason said:
It would have been neater if one of two things had happened: 1) Doctor Stein actually vaguely remembered meeting his future self and all the craziness that ensued (rewritten to make sure it wasn't too crazy)
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They mentioned the cement analogy in the episode, so one could take that the timeline change didn't settle immediately, like he didn't immediately forget his wife so too he could not immediately remember meeting himself.

It sort of works like in Back to the Future apparently, you can mess up but you have time to fix it.
 
Another fun episode. It sucks to see Hawkman go, but I'm sure we'll see another version before the season ends. I liked the fight scenes, I thought they were pretty good. Ray interacting with Snart was pretty good, too. Overall, I thought that the two part pilot was very good, and a great start to the show.
 
dodge said:
They mentioned the cement analogy in the episode, so one could take that the timeline change didn't settle immediately, like he didn't immediately forget his wife so too he could not immediately remember meeting himself.

It sort of works like in Back to the Future apparently, you can mess up but you have time to fix it.
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Remember that time you almost stubbed your toe, and you would imagine what it felt like, compared to that time you did stub your toe and blood was pissing out the edges of a ragged skin flap?

Maybe Rip cares about people, even briefly existing in a world of complete pain?

Sure he can reverse/collapse their time line at any point, but even after he's "murdered" everyone in a now unrealized future, they still did exist in dystopian worlds as actualized beings, compared to maybe what the forecast was seeing, place hiding phantoms who hadn't been coloured in yet?
 
Something that belatedly occurred to me: Rip said that time travelers can't go back and change events they were participants in -- but we've already seen the Flash do that twice. Is he the exception because something something Speed Force, or is it just a retcon they hope we won't notice? I guess a show that uses time travel as a regular feature needs to have more restrictions in place so that it won't be an easy out every time they get in trouble.
 
^^
Flash overwrites himself(because Speedforce), but when you use a timeship there's two of you(like Marty) so I guess that's the difference.
 
Overwrites is a nice word for murder.

Of course this is just for a few days where Barry is practically the same physically person.

What if he tried to rewrite decades?

When Old Barry arrives in the past, would time leave him into an old man body, or make him young again?

If he jaunts forward, past his own death, would his buried corpse vanish?
 
The second part was definitely better and more fun than the first, but for some reason the show as a whole still isn't really grabbing me that much yet, and basically feels like just another sorta decent and watchable Arrow.

And I think that's because, as much as I've enjoyed all these characters in their previous guest appearances... they still just feel like a collection of supporting characters and B-players going on some crazy adventure together. Which I realize is the point, but that still doesn't make them even half as interesting and compelling to watch as a more iconic superhero like Flash or Supergirl.
 
davejames said:
And I think that's because, as much as I've enjoyed all these characters in their previous guest appearances... they still just feel like a collection of supporting characters and B-players going on some crazy adventure together. Which I realize is the point, but that still doesn't make them even half as interesting and compelling to watch as a more iconic superhero like Flash or Supergirl.
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I still suspect that the impetus behind this show's creation was more about the actors than the characters. I think they basically just went, "Man, we/the viewers really like Caity Lotz, Brandon Routh, Victor Garber, and Wentworth Miller. Can we give them more to do than just being recurring guest stars? Oh, and bring Caity back from the dead while we're at it?" And that led to "team show," so they had to figure out what the team would be doing and why this disparate bunch of people would end up together on it, and Legends of Tomorrow is what they came up with.

So ultimately it doesn't really matter who the characters are and what the story is; it's basically just an excuse to let these actors do their thing. Which makes it sort of the superhero version of The A-Team.
 
Let's keep in mind that this is a show that just claimed that alpha particles are not only rare, but only beginning to be researched in the 70's. As opposed to reality where they're about the most common (and least harmful) form of radiation and has been known about since the late 1800's. Also, on 'The Flash' saved a city from Trickers bombs with magnets...Somehow! Because MAGNETS! ;)

If they can't even keep the real science straight, I wouldn't waste much effort supposing on how they're keeping the made-up waffle straight either.

P.S. Not to be mean to the actor, but I'm glad they offed Hawkman. Those two had zero chemistry and he seemed to hardly be present most of the time. It's almost as if he was cast for how he looked in the costume than his ability to convey human emotions or something. ;)
 
I was glad to see them address Kendra's free will this time around. Now she's free to embrace her role in the scheme of things without his squicky influence. It would be an interesting twist if he did reincarnate sometime between 1975 and the present and it fell to Kendra to persuade him to accept his role as Hawkman.

Christopher said:
Are you talking about stunts or special effects? Because I'm finding myself less than impressed by all these big group fight scenes with everyone swooping around and shooting various beams. That sort of melee scene works on the comics page where you can take your time to absorb the whole scene, but on TV it's just kind of a wild clutter.
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That's funny, because it was in those sequences that I found myself thinking, "Now that's a comic book come to life!"

Christopher said:
Something that belatedly occurred to me: Rip said that time travelers can't go back and change events they were participants in -- but we've already seen the Flash do that twice.
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IIRC, he didn't say that it couldn't be done, but that it shouldn't because of the potential ramifications...and one thing that The Flash has gone out of its way to establish is that when Barry changes his past, there are ramifications.
 
davejames said:
The second part was definitely better and more fun than the first, but for some reason the show as a whole still isn't really grabbing me that much yet, and basically feels like just another sorta decent and watchable Arrow.

And I think that's because, as much as I've enjoyed all these characters in their previous guest appearances... they still just feel like a collection of supporting characters and B-players going on some crazy adventure together. Which I realize is the point, but that still doesn't make them even half as interesting and compelling to watch as a more iconic superhero like Flash or Supergirl.
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As someone who loves comics with B-characters, I love this show. My favorite heroes have never been the big names (although I really enjoy them, too). I don't need someoine with a giant S or Bat on their chest to enjoy DC Comics, so for me its like watching some of my favorite types of comics on TV, the B-list titles that are excellent, but usually only last a year or two because people won't buy comics without the super recognizable names. This is what the DC Universe, for me, is built on. Not necessarily these characters in particular, but the idea that the big names aren't the only interesting or important characters.

Every character on this show blows two of the three main Berlantiverse lead characters out of the water, if for no other reason then this show gives their actors better material then Supergirl has ever had or Arrow has had since Season 2. I think Amell and Benoist(?) are probably better actors then, say, Hawkman's actor, but they don't get the material. This show has flaws, but its the only DC show (even including the excellent Flash) that isn't bogged down with pointless soap opera drama and/or horrible supporting characters. Its a group of great B-heroes going out and having a very comic book style adventure to save the world. Give me that over Cat Grant spending half a Supergirl episode being a hateful ass or Oliver putting away his bow and "retiring" from heroics for the 5000th time any day. If Arrow (Post Season 2) or Supergirl could be half this much fun, they might be shows I still look forward to watching.
 
kirk55555 said:
. Its a group of great B-heroes going out and having a very comic book style adventure to save the world. Give me that over Cat Grant spending half a Supergirl episode being a hateful ass
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agreed! i absolutely despise her on Supergirl. one of the reasons i quit watching that series.
 
Saga said:
agreed! i absolutely despise her on Supergirl. one of the reasons i quit watching that series.
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Yeah, if she wasn't on the show it would be so much better. She's practically the co-star at this point. Its kind of like Felicity on Arrow for me, except Felicity was a decent character for the first two seasons before getting upgraded to horrible co-star status. Cat has just been horrible since episode one, and I swear it feels like she gets more screen time than Supergirl in some episodes.
 
Christopher said:
I still suspect that the impetus behind this show's creation was more about the actors than the characters. I think they basically just went, "Man, we/the viewers really like Caity Lotz, Brandon Routh, Victor Garber, and Wentworth Miller. Can we give them more to do than just being recurring guest stars? Oh, and bring Caity back from the dead while we're at it?" And that led to "team show," so they had to figure out what the team would be doing and why this disparate bunch of people would end up together on it, and Legends of Tomorrow is what they came up with.

So ultimately it doesn't really matter who the characters are and what the story is; it's basically just an excuse to let these actors do their thing. Which makes it sort of the superhero version of The A-Team.
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Yeah it does sorta have that thrown together feel to it. And the characters are certainly fairly fun and watchable enough; I'm just not convinced yet that they're the kind of great characters worth building an entire series around. Much like the Lone Gunmen from X-Files or Joey from Friends (or, in my view, SHIELD from the Avengers).

Because no matter how good the storytelling may be on a series like this, ultimately you still need to have some great and memorable characters at the heart of it that make you want to tune in every week.
 
Heh...put on H2, they're showing an episode of Mankind: The Story of All of Us that covers the fall of Rome, and this line came out of the narrator: "But the Vandals are no savages...".
 
I love Cat Grant on Supergirl! :(

Was that Kryptonite in the promo?

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