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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

suarezguy said:
Really liked Bale's portrayal in BB, then was very disappointed with the sequels having him retiring after a year.
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Samurai8472 said:
Largely because of the "realism" factor that someone that dresses up as a bat can't do this crusade for very long.
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On the physical side, Batman's body taking a beating & leading to his not being on the job long was an interesting take--one almost every other superhero film never addresses, especially if the character is not enhanced. With Affleck's Batman, he was the seasoned version, but even he addresses his shortcomings by having to up his training to face Superman, so he was not retiring, but his acknowledging his very human body's potential weaknesses was a nice, realistic manner. In other words, he just cannot jump out of bed and think he's ready to face a potential threat of that magnitude.
 
Former DC Comics and Marvel Writer Chris Wozniak has launched the social campaign 'Batmangate' to bring attention to his accusations that the plot of the movie was ripped wholesale from a similar script he pitched years ago


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USS Firefly said:
I know how he feels.
I am almost forty and if I have to fight Superman when I reach that age I don't think I can defeat him.
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That's why you prepare ;)
 
Samurai8472 said:
Former DC Comics and Marvel Writer Chris Wozniak has launched the social campaign 'Batmangate' to bring attention to his accusations that the plot of the movie was ripped wholesale from a similar script he pitched years ago


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Might be better to just link the actual video they are referring to in that interview, because that didn't explain anything.
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And after watching that, I have to call bullshit on his claim.

Like the "corruption has never been shown to be this systemic in Gotham before", it's like he never read Year One, never watched Batman Begins, never watched Gotham. All of those have corrruption from street-level cops up to high-ranking city officials. Both Year One and Gotham had mayors and police commissioners in the pocket of organized crime. I mean, Year One introduced Carmine Falcone, FFS. In Batman Begins, Ra's boasts about how Gotham was so corrupt that they were able to infiltrate every level of its infrastructure.

Then the bit about character compositing. What, a scene where the villain goes after somebody close to the protagonist is something unique?! In what world does this guy live in? It's one of the most common narrative tropes out there. Pretty much every James Bond film has the villains kill somebody close to Bond in order to make the stakes more personal.
Hell, the year he claims he gave his script to Michael Uslan is the year The Dark Knight was released, where the villain kills off Batman's love interest. And also intentionally gets captured by the police, let's not forget that that beat was somehow something unique to Wozniak's script.
And no, the mail-bomb is not unique, either. They are a thing in real life.

Sorry, but I have to see something more convincing than what I've seen so far to really consider that Wozniak actually has a case.
 
suarezguy said:
Non-supernatural Catwoman tends to be barely villainous, let alone a challenging villain. Interesting you seem to also think The Batman Penguin and maybe Catwoman were awful.
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The Batman's Catwoman could literally be cut out of the film and all that would happen is that the movie would be shorter, which would be a good. The actress who plays her isn't particularly compelling, but with that script no one could have made any character interesting, so I won't blame her for the problems with the terrible writing/directing. To be clear I don't think that Catwoman should be a real villain, she hasn't been one in the comics for decades anyway. She's a thief, but its not like she ever steals from people in need, she takes expensive stuff from rich people/museums etc, which isn't "good" or legal but doesn't really make a character a villain, especially in the context of the Batman universe. Yeah, the comic version of Catwoman killed Black Mask, but for her it was a very extreme situation, and basically justified, at least as something her character would do in that situation.

As for Penguin, putting a guy in prosthetics doesn't make them Penguin. He's just a generic mobster in the film, at least danny devito was memorable. Then again, I barely remember anything about that plodding disaster of a film, I legitimately forgot that Penguin was in it until you mentioned him. When it comes to villains, I was more focused on Jigsaw aka "Riddler" and how shit he was. I honestly wish at this point that someone would just adapt "Private Investigator" Riddler in a project, that's still my favorite version of the character in the comics.

Samurai8472 said:
Largely because of the "realism" factor that someone that dresses up as a bat can't do this crusade for very long.

It really makes the Nolan trilogy an outlier to later interpretations. Affleck's Batman has been operating for 20 years and Pattinson is in his 2nd year(with a long battle ahead)
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The Nolan trilogy and its "realism" is a huge factor in DC films going to shit. They chased The Dark Knight for so long it just screwed everything up. I don't think realism worked for Batman at all, but trying to apply it to other DC properties lead the DC films to what they were under Snyder, even though he's not a very realistic type of creative person.
 
Kai "the spy" said:
And after watching that, I have to call bullshit on his claim.

Like the "corruption has never been shown to be this systemic in Gotham before", it's like he never read Year One, never watched Batman Begins, never watched Gotham. All of those have corrruption from street-level cops up to high-ranking city officials. Both Year One and Gotham had mayors and police commissioners in the pocket of organized crime. I mean, Year One introduced Carmine Falcone, FFS. In Batman Begins, Ra's boasts about how Gotham was so corrupt that they were able to infiltrate every level of its infrastructure.

Then the bit about character compositing. What, a scene where the villain goes after somebody close to the protagonist is something unique?! In what world does this guy live in? It's one of the most common narrative tropes out there. Pretty much every James Bond film has the villains kill somebody close to Bond in order to make the stakes more personal.
Hell, the year he claims he gave his script to Michael Uslan is the year The Dark Knight was released, where the villain kills off Batman's love interest. And also intentionally gets captured by the police, let's not forget that that beat was somehow something unique to Wozniak's script.
And no, the mail-bomb is not unique, either. They are a thing in real life.

Sorry, but I have to see something more convincing than what I've seen so far to really consider that Wozniak actually has a case.
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I suspected as much without even watching the video. When I searched for articles about his claim, I could only find one news site talking about it, and that site looks like one of those clickbait sites that exist to drum up controversy and fan hate.
 
I always thought it was weird when people would go on about how Battinson was "young, new to Batmanning for a change!" when, with the exception of Battfleck, that's been the default for new live action versions.

Keaton was so new he was still a rumour, Gordon and the general public didn't even believe he was real. The only person who did was labeled a nutcase conspiracy writer. Kilmer and Clooney were just continuations of Keaton.

We literally saw Bale training and starting out, and TDK was 6 months after BB, meaning he was Batman for like 8 months before retiring. Then TDKR is 12 years later. He's older than Battinson, but actually less experienced even in it.

Battinson is finishing his second year when the movie starts. He's more experienced than Keaton in his first movie and Bale in his first two and arguably all three. Even West was the same approximate age as Pattinson in real life when he started Batman so you could probably say he wasn't doing it a lot longer either.

There was a research paper done around the time TDK came out, made headlines, some scientists tried to figure out if it was humanly possible to actually be Batman. I believe the results were something like, if you had Waynes unlimited funds and the same 7 years of training you could get away with it for about 6 months at the age of 26. After that, your body would be destroyed. Which was something TDKR kinda referenced, and then ignored with the invention of the Bat-Brace. Which pissed off my wife with physical disabilities. "HE INVENTED A BRACE THAT CURED HIS KNEES HAVING BEEN BROKEN AND CARTILAGE FREE AND KEPT IT FOR HIMSELF?!"
 
Look, any actor who is playing Batman should be able to do this as their audition and pass in order to get the role. It's just that easy.

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wayoung said:
Even West was the same approximate age as Pattinson in real life when he started Batman so you could probably say he wasn't doing it a lot longer either.
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Well, Dick Grayson was theoretically around 14 at the start of the series (since he got his driver's license in the third season), while the comics' Robin was, I believe, 8 years old when he started. So that implies that Dick had been Robin for several years already, which in turn implies that Batman had been around for at least a year or two longer.

Certainly West's Batman had been around long enough to establish a close working relationship with the police and become an admired public figure.
 
Kai "the spy" said:
And after watching that, I have to call bullshit on his claim.

.
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Indeed. Most of his claims have been plot points in Batman media for some time--decades in some cases. He seems to be hungry to bolster his career by hitching his wagon to the film. A writer's career can also be bolstered by..you know...creating something more people want to read.
 
Wow. 300+ posts later, I have a few thoughts.

I've been a Batgirl fan since Babs was a Congresswoman, so I was looking forward to the movie. It didn't escape my notice that Lesley Grace is a woman, and a woman of color to boot. Given the bullshit pulled by fanboys when Captain Marvel came out, and that *enraging* slide from WBD, I doubt we can say for certain that misogyny had no place. No matter what, I feel sad for all the people who worked on the film.

Regarding the rest of the behind-the‐scenes WBD stuff: What. A. Mess! I hate when bean counters take control of arts & entertainment companies. I worry about the next few years of DC (and general WB/HBO) projects.

I don't rank my Batmen, but I will say Affleck and Keaton both impressed me (when I hadn't expected much).
 
Captaindemotion said:
So, THR says that WB is considering 3 options for The Flash. Firstly, that Miller seeks help and does limited press, explaining the reasons for their recent behaviour. Secondly, that they play no part in promoting the movie. And thirdly, the nuclear option of scrapping the film. Which I guess isn’t entirely unlikely, given the Batgirl decision. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/m...ra-miller-problem-worsens-warners-1235196919/
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Option 1 it is.

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-apologizes-the-flash-mental-health-issues-1235341888/

“Having recently gone through a time of intense crisis, I now understand that I am suffering complex mental health issues and have begun ongoing treatment,” Miller says. “I want to apologize to everyone that I have alarmed and upset with my past behavior. I am committed to doing the necessary work to get back to a healthy, safe and productive stage in my life.”
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At this point, I want the movie to come out just for Keaton Batman, and maybe a little bit for Supergirl just to see how she is. Hopefully Miller is sincerely trying to get help, which doesn't excuse the stuff they've done but is probably the best case scenario ending for the weird cross country crime spree they've been on.
 
kirk55555 said:
At this point, I want the movie to come out just for Keaton Batman, and maybe a little bit for Supergirl just to see how she is. Hopefully Miller is sincerely trying to get help, which doesn't excuse the stuff they've done but is probably the best case scenario ending for the weird cross country crime spree they've been on.
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I wonder if they were originally going to make him the main universe Batman, and then changed it in the reshoots...
 
Unexpected really....

There is a cynical part of me that can't help but wonder if this is a statement made to reduce jailtime, and perhaps Miller receiving less of a paycut for the movie and promoting it. Just wild thoughts, I know.

In any case, them getting help is a very good thing, hopefully they'll get the proper support they need to overcome their issues. And as for the Flash, I'm glad we'll still get to see it.
 
Tosk said:
Hopefully Ezra Miller benefits from the help that WB is almost certainly pressuring on Ezra. Despite the car crash so far, and regardless of film release, the best outcome would be Ezra getting through this and becoming mentally fit.
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I am a little cynical about this report, I admit; but, if it is true that he is having deep problems and is actually seeking help for them then he certainly deserves benefit of the doubt. Our current system of psychological care is pathetic considering what we can do to help people and this current movement of health awareness makes me angry as it is a lot of talk with little real help for those who need it the most.
 
Mage said:
Unexpected really....

There is a cynical part of me that can't help but wonder if this is a statement made to reduce jailtime, and perhaps Miller receiving less of a paycut for the movie and promoting it. Just wild thoughts, I know..
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Yes, Miller's attempt to seek help is a way to reduce or avoid a sentence leading to prison. Its a standard procedure Miller's agents and more importantly, lawyers will always pursue, which is not uncommon when entertainers break the law. Secondly, it serves as "good" PR for WB/D--a sign that they were not sweeping Miller's warped behavior/acts under the carpet, but wanted Miller to seek help for well-being's sake, not a corporate one.

If Miller follows through--which will likely be capped off by the expected celebrity "apology tour" after some sort of treatment--WB/D will release The Flash, but at that point, the wise decision is to recast the part, making a clean break once and for all.
 
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