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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

I disagree.

Prior to the development and release of Man of Steel, the only comic-book films that felt truly like they were taking place in our actual world were Christopher Nolan's Batman films, and when Nolan teamed up with Snyder and David S. Goyer for MoS, that stylistic and tonal philosophy - which worked excellently when applied to a decidedly human character like Batman - was carried over and almost as flawly applied to decidedly superhuman characters and situations.
The reason comic book movies before the Snyder movies didn't feel like they took place in the real world, is because they weren't meant to take place in the real world. They took place in the same kind of heightened realities that the comics themselves take place in. And really the world that Snyder created isn't any more realistic than the ones before it, it just approaches that unreality from a different angle than a lot of the ones before it.
And I find it kind of funny that people are praising DC's movies for being so "realistic", when Marvel's comics are the ones that are meant to take place in "the world outside your window", not DC's.
I've always preferred less reality in my comic book movies, which is why love the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, Aquaman, Birds of Prey, Shazam, Infinity War and Endgame, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, and the Ant-Man movies, because they go all in on the unreality of the comics.
 
I can't believe anyone would call Snyder's style "realistic." He's just the opposite -- everything he does is hyper-stylized to a fault. One of my biggest problems with his Watchmen was that it was a story that demanded a grounded, verite approach, but he made it with extreme, slick stylization that worked directly against the story's realism.
 
Someone like Christopher Nolan would have better choice to capture the grounded realism of Watchmen as it was in the comics. Obviously there are many other directors could do that too. Just using someone who did a superhero movie closer in style.

The opening to Bob Dylan got so much praise. But I knew right away he misunderstood what the comic was about. Those slow motion, exaggerated movements is closer to Warren Beatty’s Dick Tracy than most fans realize or want to admit.
 
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With all due respect to my friends and allies (and Christopher), talking about radio and comics doesn't really speak to DigificWriter's claim that Snyder brought unique and unprecedented "realism" and social commentary to DC's movies, and that his sensibility has informed the DCEU ever since.

He's still wrong.

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I'm not talking about 'social commentary' being part of the story.

I'm talking about sociological and philosophical issues being the story.

I also stand by my description of Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Aquaman, and Shazam as feeling realistic as opposed to 'comic-booky'.
 
Reminds me of this tidbit from an article describing a Justice League set visit:
The final costume was Wonder Woman, and just like Batman it's the exact same costume as last time. And again, that's unusual. Just in case we forgot this was a Zack Snyder movie [costume designer Michael] Wilkinson explained the deep crimson of her breastplate by saying it reflects the "centuries of congealed blood of her victims."
 
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He'll be fine. I'm sure he can climb out with a broken hand and injured spine. He probably dodged when Non came hurling down at him. ;)

So it’s even worse than I’d remembered. Not only does Superman kill Zod, Lois kills Ursa. And, even if we consider the possibility the Kryptonians didn’t die in their respective falls, Superman’s destruction of the Fortress was certainly fatal—and to Luthor as well. :eek:

:whistle:

That was never the intent. There's a deleted scene sometimes included in TV airings showing the phantom zone criminals being taken off to jail afterwards. People who think Superman smirked then murdered a powerless opponent baffle me beyond words.

What's a "semi-bottomless pit"? ;)

A lot of ledges?

No way for theatre goers to know that, though. :whistle:

I pieced it together at 5 just fine...

There's a much closer line between the Marvel Netflix shows and Snyder .

Except the Netflix shows generally have well developed characters with clear motivations...

I also stand by my description of Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Aquaman, and Shazam as feeling realistic as opposed to 'comic-booky'.

If only reality was like Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam...
 
That was never the intent. There's a deleted scene sometimes included in TV airings showing the phantom zone criminals being taken off to jail afterwards. People who think Superman smirked then murdered a powerless opponent baffle me beyond words.

I agree that is more likely, but that scene is not on my Superman II dvd. So that is why I assumed that he killed Zod.
 
I agree that is more likely, but that scene is not on my Superman II dvd. So that is why I assumed that he killed Zod.

One of the first rules of comic-book physics is that if an arch-villain seemingly falls to their death, they'll inevitably survive, usually without any explanation. There's no counting the number of times in Batman comics over the decades, both in the early '40s and post-'70s, when the Joker apparently fell to his death only to reappear perfectly intact later on. The same went for Hugo Strange, the other primary recurring Batman villain in the early '40s. The Joker of Batman: The Animated Series had the same ability to return from seemingly certain death, though not specifically falling. In Batman '66, Catwoman returned after falling to her apparent death on two separate occasions -- and Batman Returns made her "nine lives" resurrection ability explicit.

And it's not limited to comics arch-villains -- other examples include Doctor Who's Master and the original MacGyver's Murdoc, though their apparent deaths rarely involve falling (I think at least one of Murdoc's "deaths" did, though). It's a routine way to give a hero a seemingly certain victory over a villain while leaving the door open for that villain to return later on. It's basic storytelling logic: If there's no body, there's no proof they died. So I see no reason to assume anything different about Superman II.

Of course, you could still argue that Superman intended to kill Zod et al., but that would be out of character. If we stipulate a universe where a fall from such a height is potentially survivable, then it follows, by the logic of vintage Superman stories, that Superman knew the fall was survivable and intended it to be so.

Frankly, what's far more out of character for Superman in that movie is the bit where he goes back as Clark and beats up the bully with his powers restored. That's the kind of abuse of power over a weaker person that Superman would never consider in a million years.
 
You have to remember that the Donner movies had a light-hearted, almost fairy-tale feel to them (Luthor's campiness, Superman flying with Lois in the first movie) and this was no different. Yes, looking at it now it looks sadistic the way he crushed Zod's hand and then tossed him around like that but in context that's not how it really would be.

The REAL problems with Superman 2 were how he gave up his powers to be with someone as nutty as the Donner Lois and how he decided he couldn't trust her with his secret after and violated her mind to make her forget.
 
You have yet to see Aquaman and Shazam. It's really the only explanation for writing this wacky sentence.

I watched both films in a theater and own them on Blu-ray.

Aquaman and Shazam are very fantastical, but they treat that fantastical content in a way that makes it feel like what they are showing could both actually exist and realistically happen, which is entirely consistent with what Zack Snyder did with Man of Steel and BvS, David Ayer did with Suicide Squad, and Patty Jenkins did with Wonder Woman.

I'm attracted to the DCEU for the same reasons that I'm attracted to the Harry Potter novels: they treat the fantastical in a way that makes it feel realistic and ordinary.
 
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I had no idea there was a deleted scene where we see the villains alive until this thread. I haven't seen the movie in many years, and my immediate takeaway was always that Superman crushed Zod's hand, flung him against the wall, and down the pit to his death, all with no remorse or attempt to bring him in alive.
You can go "Well, actually" all you like, but the fact remains that in the scene Superman is facing someone who is now not a threat to anyone and at the very least breaks many of his bones all without any need. I have many issues with MoS, but I find the neck snap to be more justifiable than how Superman II handled it.
 
I had no idea there was a deleted scene where we see the villains alive until this thread. I haven't seen the movie in many years, and my immediate takeaway was always that Superman crushed Zod's hand, flung him against the wall, and down the pit to his death, all with no remorse or attempt to bring him in alive.

He's a comic book supervillain who falls down a bottomless pit. That's not the kind of "death" you take seriously. That's not the kind of movie this was.


I have many issues with MoS, but I find the neck snap to be more justifiable than how Superman II handled it.

The difference is one of tone and focus. Superman II is the kind of movie where all that matters is that the villains were defeated and the heroes triumphed, and you turn off your brain about any moral questions involving death because it's all just a fun adventure. Like, should Luke Skywalker be put on trial for murdering the thousands of innocent workers and prisoners that were aboard the Death Star? That's just not the kind of movie that was. But Man of Steel is different because the fact of Zod's death was not glossed over for the sake of a cartoony happy ending, but confronted directly as a painful, dramatic choice for the hero. It's apples and oranges. All stories make choices about what they want us to focus on and what they want us to ignore. And the two movies make opposite choices where Zod's fate is concerned.
 
And again, the real nasty stuff in Superman 2 isn't what happens to the Kryptonians. It's how irresponsible and unheroic Superman acts throughout the whole movie.
 
He's a comic book supervillain who falls down a bottomless pit. That's not the kind of "death" you take seriously. That's not the kind of movie this was.
You're looking at it from the point of view of someone who's had many years of experience consuming superhero stories. When I saw the movie I was probably 11 and my main experience of Superman were the Max Fleischer cartoons and Lois & Clark. And so my reaction wasn't "Eh, they'll be fine." It was "Superman just crushed a man's hand and threw him to his death." It was so jarring compared to the Superman I knew at that point.
 
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