DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[Christopher]

I actually think Clooney now would be 100 times better than he was at the time of Batman & Robin.

I think Clooney was a more credible Batman -- certainly a more credible Bruce Wayne -- than either of his predecessors, in terms of appearance and personality; he was just saddled with bad material. (Although I'm biased in Clooney's favor since his father was my favorite local news anchor and a casual friend of my father.)

 

[Captaindemotion]

You could have Chris O'Donnell as either new Batman, or Nightwing.

About a minute after I replied to @Danlav05 that occurred to me.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I think Clooney was a more credible Batman -- certainly a more credible Bruce Wayne -- than either of his predecessors, in terms of appearance and personality; he was just saddled with bad material. (Although I'm biased in Clooney's favor since his father was my favorite local news anchor and a casual friend of my father.)

He certainly looked the part but in any interview I read at the time, he seemed to have no understanding of the character (eg he’d say things like “he dates hot chicks, he has a cool car, it’s time he got over his parents’ deaths”) & I just remember him smirking and mugging through it all. But I do think that the Clooney of Michael Clayton, The American and many other great films could totally excel as Batman now.

 

[DigificWriter]

Batman and Robin sucked because every single person involved with it treated it like a joke and actively set out to make the worst, most homophobically offensive movie they possibly could.

Clooney even talked Joel Schumacher - an openly gay man - into letting him and Chris O'Donnell play up every flamboyantly gay stereotype possible simply for the sake of making fun of the. Batman property and its earliest gay subtext.

And I say that as a CIS Heterosexual man.

 

[Samurai8472]

Kilmer is unwell (possibly throat cancer) so sadly he’s unlikely.

He's still acting even alongside his daughter

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That movie dubbed over his lines since he can barely speak anymore.

A few minutes for a "Forever" cameo CAN be done. They just have to dub him.

 

[Christopher]

He certainly looked the part but in any interview I read at the time, he seemed to have no understanding of the character (eg he’d say things like “he dates hot chicks, he has a cool car, it’s time he got over his parents’ deaths”) & I just remember him smirking and mugging through it all. But I do think that the Clooney of Michael Clayton, The American and many other great films could totally excel as Batman now.

What he thought doesn't matter, since an actor's job is to follow the lead of the director and writers, not to do it all himself. What people don't know, they can learn. With the right script and the right direction, he could've done a terrific job even then.

 

[Captaindemotion]

What he thought doesn't matter, since an actor's job is to follow the lead of the director and writers, not to do it all himself. What people don't know, they can learn. With the right script and the right direction, he could've done a terrific job even then.

Actually it *does* matter because he said in the interviews that when he sat down with Schumacher to discuss the part he said that he told Shumacher this was what he felt about the character and why he thought that it should be lightened up. And that Shumacher listened and agreed.

Now, that may well be typical actor BS and PR speak (He was trying to justify a lighter-hearted film to sceptical fans and critics) and I’m sure that the decision to play B&R for laughs wasn’t his alone. But there have been many examples of an actor coming to an established franchise and putting their foot down - Timothy Dalton used to demand the excision of one-liners from his Bond films, for example.

 

[Christopher]

Actually it *does* matter because he said in the interviews that when he sat down with Schumacher to discuss the part he said that he told Shumacher this was what he felt about the character and why he thought that it should be lightened up. And that Shumacher listened and agreed.

Yes, that's my point. He only ended up doing it that way because the director let him. A different director could have disagreed and explained why he wanted to do it a different way, and then Clooney's job would have been to follow those instructions, because the star works for the director, not the other way around. I mean, he was the third guy to play this role in the series, so it's not as if he couldn't be replaced if he didn't play ball.

So I'm not talking about his opinions. I'm talking about his capabilities. Given the right guidance, given the right understanding of the character, he had the skill as an actor to play such a character. Whether he understood that's what the character was is a different issue. I'm talking about what was potentially within his abilities as an actor, as demonstrated by his overall body of work.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Yes, that's my point. He only ended up doing it that way because the director let him. A different director could have disagreed and explained why he wanted to do it a different way, and then Clooney's job would have been to follow those instructions, because the star works for the director, not the other way around. I mean, he was the third guy to play this role in the series, so it's not as if he couldn't be replaced if he didn't play ball.

So I'm not talking about his opinions. I'm talking about his capabilities. Given the right guidance, given the right understanding of the character, he had the skill as an actor to play such a character. Whether he understood that's what the character was is a different issue. I'm talking about what was potentially within his abilities as an actor, as demonstrated by his overall body of work.

I specifically said in my first post about him that Clooney could play a better Batman now than at the time of B&R and in my second one replying to you I listed some of his films as being reason for that. So I don’t think we’re that far apart. But I do think that he probably had a better understanding of the character now and I suspect he’d also be more willing to stand up to a director now than he was then (he famously clashed with David O. Russell on the set of Three Kings).

Where we do seem to disagree is on the issue of an actor‘s opinions mattering - I think an actor’s understanding of a character counts as part of their capabilities but I don’t really wish to argue the point all night.

 

[Christopher]

I specifically said in my first post about him that Clooney could play a better Batman now than at the time of B&R and in my second one replying to you I listed some of his films as being reason for that. So I don’t think we’re that far apart.

I just disagree with the "now." Even then, he was more credible in the role than Keaton or Kilmer. As for the understanding of the character, as I said, a better script and director could've set him straight on that point right then and there. He did not exist in a vacuum. What he's learned since then, he could have learned at the time, given different circumstances.

Where we do seem to disagree is on the issue of an actor‘s opinions mattering - I think an actor’s understanding of a character counts as part of their capabilities but I don’t really wish to argue the point all night.

Of course it matters. It just doesn't outweigh the director's guidance. Life is not about binaries, it's about the proportional weight of multiple interacting factors. Something can be a factor without being the only factor.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I just disagree with the "now." Even then, he was more credible in the role than Keaton or Kilmer. As for the understanding of the character, as I said, a better script and director could've set him straight on that point right then and there. He did not exist in a vacuum. What he's learned since then, he could have learned at the time, given different circumstances.




Of course it matters. It just doesn't outweigh the director's guidance. Life is not about binaries, it's about the proportional weight of multiple interacting factors. Something can be a factor without being the only factor.

Fair enough. I didn't intend to suggest that his assessment of Batman was the only reason I don’t rate his performance but it’s part of it.

I do think he’s a better actor now than he was then - compare him in eg From Dusk Till Dawn (he’s basically a thuggish Doctor Doug Ross) with The Air Up There but it’s all academic anyway, I suppose. I do agree that with a better director he’d have been a better Batman than he was in B&R.

I actually prefer both Keaton and Kilmer in the role (Keaton’s intensity, Kilmer’s athleticism and wryness) but that’s of course subjective. We may agree to disagree.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It was one of a run of four consecutive Hindu-mythology episodes, but IIRC it portrayed Krishna onscreen in a way that some Hindus found disrespectful -- though I felt it was actually the least disrespectful of the four in its portrayal of Hindu myth and culture.

Folks in the West sometimes forget there are active polytheistic religions and try to treat them the same way they do the Greco-Roman and Norse pantheons. The Hindu pantheon portrayed in Marvel's Thor series a few decades back and a few eyebrows were raised. Of course in modern comics even the Abrahamic religions are fair game

 

[Christopher]

Folks in the West sometimes forget there are active polytheistic religions and try to treat them the same way they do the Greco-Roman and Norse pantheons.

One of the things I find interesting about watching Japanese fantasy TV & film is how much it's influenced by Shintoist and animist ideas, like objects having their own spirits. Or how casually they let Christian cultural influences and the idea of God (Kami-sama) as a singular entity operate alongside the idea of a multitude of divinities (kami) existing at the same time.

 

[JD]

He's still acting even alongside his daughter

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That movie dubbed over his lines since he can barely speak anymore.

A few minutes for a "Forever" cameo CAN be done. They just have to dub him.

Wow, I hadn't seen him years, so I had no idea Kilmer's voice was in such bad shape.

 

[fireproof78]

Folks in the West sometimes forget there are active polytheistic religions and try to treat them the same way they do the Greco-Roman and Norse pantheons. The Hindu pantheon portrayed in Marvel's Thor series a few decades back and a few eyebrows were raised. Of course in modern comics even the Abrahamic religions are fair game

More interesting to explore all religions.

 

[theenglish]

More interesting to explore all religions.

In a number of shows as well. Supernatural comes to mind. Lucifer. Sabrina. And more recently the Warrior Nun adaptation.

 

[fireproof78]

In a number of shows as well. Supernatural comes to mind. Lucifer. Sabrina. And more recently the Warrior Nun adaptation.

Lucifer is probably the most irritating of them, but yes I do enjoy the different points of view.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Seeing David Dastmalchian and Michael Rooker in video and panel for The Suicide Squad got me wondering how many actors have done both the MCU and the DCEU. I know there have been a few others, but I'm drawing a blank beyond those two.
For those unaware or who have maybe forgotten, Michael Rooker was Yondu in the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, and Dastmalchian was Kurt in the Ant-Man.

Most of the others were mentioned but I'd also like to point out Scoot McNairy. He was the Wayne Enterprises employee who lost his legs in Batman v. Superman. He was also the guy interviewing Trevor Slattery in the Marvel One-Shot "All Hail the King."

Damn, I can't believe I forgot Fishburne.

In fairness, Ant-Man & the Wasp is a very forgettable movie.

Well that trailer is incredibly pretentious and a very odd place for Leonard Cohen to be. (EDIT: Just realized the Watchmen connection...which I had mercifully erased from my mind)

Snyder sure loves his Leonard Cohen. In addition to using "Hallelujah" both here and in Watchmen, he also played "First We Take Manhattan" during the closing credits of Watchmen. And the theatrical cut of Justice League began with a cover of "Everybody Knows." I'm not sure if that was a Snyder decision or a Whedon one, but I guess we'll find out.

Regarding the "limited series" idea--I would probably watch a four hour movie in at least three sittings anyway.

That's how I am these days even with shorter movies. It doesn't take much to distract me and get me to pause the movie, play some online games or something, then go back to it hours or days later.

Still, I'd prefer to see the Snyder cut all in one sitting, edited together as a single feature, the way it was intended. And I've heard some things that suggest to me that it will probably get a limited theatrical run, probably mostly just on IMAX screens. I suspect that's the reason for the more squareish aspect ratio of the trailer.

I'm definitely a lot more excited for the Snyder cut now than I was before. I still doubt that it will be a great movie. But I think that it will be a very interesting one and I'm loving all of the Snyder visuals. He sure does shoot purty, don't he?

I also really enjoyed the trailer for The Batman. I'm not really digging the costume or Bruce Wayne's emo hair. But I really love the tone that they seem to be going for. It reminds me a lot of Batman Begins, sort of half real and half dingy urban fantasy. I think that's generally how I prefer my Batman movies.

But many people I know watched The Irishman over at least 2 sittings; I actually don’t know anyone who watched it all one one go.

I saw The Irishman all in one sitting when it came to the local discount theater. The place was packed with old people, half of whom didn't understand the plot, so they needed the other half to explain it to them. "That's his daughter from before." etc.

(Danny Elfman did indeed return for Joss Whedon's cut of Justice League, which I think I'd like if I ever got to see it but the naysayers have me turned off of it at the moment).

The movie is decent but forgettable. I enjoyed that they brought back Danny Elfman's Batman theme but it seemed a little subdued to me. I'm not sure if it was just buried in the sound mix or if it was arranged in a way that made it not pop out as much as it used to. (I think that the original 1989 version had a lot more horns, but the Justice League version felt like it was mostly strings.) Come on, guys! If you're going to bring back Elfman's Batman theme, just GO FOR IT!

Much as I enjoy the other various Batman movies we've gotten over the years, I don't think that anything will ever top the Tim Burton movies. Those movies are works of art that transcend the superhero genre and reach that rarefied plane that only the best Tim Burton movies can manage.

I'm kinda wondering, beyond bringing back Michael Keaton (and possibly Michelle Pfeiffer), how much is Flashpoint going to show us of Keaton's Gotham City and how much will they try to make it look like the Tim Burton movies? Those movies are so distinctive, both in their look and their sound, that I hope they do their homework and really try to live in that kind of vintage art deco world where the 1930s never totally ended.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

So, apparently, IGN had an exclusive DC Fandome panel I didn't know about (and it didn't stream on the DC Fandome site, because it was "exclusive") on the new animated "Superman: The Man of Tomorrow" film. And during that panel, they announced the slate of animated films for 2021. Here's the list:

- Batman: Soul of the Dragon (early 2021)
- Justice Society: World War II (Spring 2021)
- Batman: The Long Halloween, Part I (Summer 2021)
- Batman: The Long Halloween, Part II (Fall 2021)

 

[Christopher]

Okay, it looks like they aren't in any rush to start a new ongoing animated-movie universe to replace the one they just ended. We have three movies set in the past (young-Superman origin, '70s kung fu Batman movie, WWII JSA movie) and a 2-part comics adaptation, probably standalone like previous adaptations such as TDKR, Year One, and The Killing Joke.