Nice reviews kirk55555. If I may, however, I don't think you should be using the term "real" to refer to the pre-Flashpoint characters when we all know the REAL characters haven't been around since March 1986. 
DC - Convergence Spring Event
- Thread starter Vendikarr
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I think you meant 1945.Nice reviews kirk55555. If I may, however, I don't think you should be using the term "real" to refer to the pre-Flashpoint characters when we all know the REAL characters haven't been around since March 1986.
We all have our own opinions of who the "real" characters are, I won't dispute that. Honestly, I just count 1938-2011 as DC Comics, and 2011 and later as the New 52. Although, I guess if I had toi narrow it down I think of "my" DC Comics era as post COIE until the New 52 reboot, since I've probably read the most from that era, but I happen to enjoy a lot of DC from the beginning until the New 52.
I'm just teasing--I knew what you meant. But it is really just a matter of time.
After COIE I stopped reading DC comics for nearly twenty years. I returned briefly for the Death of Superman and then found out about Zero Hour and gave up again. DC had messed with my "real" versions of the characters and I fell out of interest with the entire universe. I returned for Infinite Crisis and have been reading again for almost ten years.
Greg Rucka was THE original writer and I daresay creator for the character of Batwoman. He was the one who conceptualized and created her backstory, her premise and her supporting cast elements which was taken from his run on the Batbooks and 52. It's hilarious that you are crying for the return of Haden Blackman (and also Williams) when he was pretty much a scab that DC and JH Williams hired after the former screwed Rucka over on Earth One Wonder Woman. Now you know how the people who disliked the post-Rucka run of Batwoman feel.
I liked batwoman in 52, and I loved her Detective Comics run and then her own book until the writers left because DC things all heroes need a horrible personal life. It sucks that DC screwed Rucka on Wonder Woman, but the Williams/Blackman had nothing to do with that. Heck, Williams, the artist, probably lost the drawing gig on WW Earth One when Ruka lost the writing assignment.
Using the logic from your post, does that mean that no one should have been allowed to write Batwoman because Ruka got screwed by DC? I guess you also think every single Superman story written after Shuster and Siegel were fired were written by scabs? Do you think everyone from John Byrne to, you know, Greg Ruka are all scabs hired to write for Superman because Superman's creators were fired by DC? Williams and Blackman had nothing to do with Rucka leaving DC, and DC was never going to abandon Batwoman just because Rucka wasn't there.
You can't blame Williams and Blackman for taking a job. They weren't "scabs". Rucka was screwed over by DC, and of course that was a bad thing. But, he wasn't the first, and his leaving should in no way be used to insult Williams and Blackman. Someone had to write the character. DC owned the character, so they have the write to assign people to it. Williams and Blackman were hired by DC to write the book. They didn't sabotage Rucka or have anything to do with his stuff. Someone was going to write Batwoman, and it worked out. Apparently Greg Rucka got over it, since he just wrote a book for DC, and I'm sure he doesn't hold anything against Blackman and Williams in any case, so I really don't get your attitude.
Its fine to be angry that Rucka got shafted, or to dislike Batwoman's stories after Rucka left, but Williams/Blackman aren't even remotely related to Rucka's leaving. I don't blame Batwoman's current writers for writing a book I don't like, and I don't consider them "scabs". They're people being paid to do a job, and they work in an environment that doesn't really allow writers to do good work. I blame Dan DiDio for his idiocy with batwoman (among other things), and that works just as well for Rucka's Wonder Woman stuff.
Absolutely unlikely. Why would he use Williams when he has a large list of previous collaborators from his time on Batman, Superman Checkmate or Wonder Woman as well as his creator owned indie project? The idea he was only getting work somehow because of JH Williams is absurd.
Williams should have walked from the project once DC and Rucka couldn't have come to an accommodation over Batwoman (and Wonder Woman). Instead he stayed thinking he wouldn't have gotten screwed by DC, which he did in the end. I'm not angry, I just find it hilarious and ironic that people like you cry about what happened to the latter pair of Black and Williams yet ignore what happened to Greg Rucka on the book. Lesson learned for them and their fans.
I don't think you should be using the term "real" to refer to the pre-Flashpoint characters when we all know the REAL characters haven't been around since March 1986.
Well if it makes you feel better those guys are coming back too.
Well, its a good thing I didn't say that. All I said is that Williams, who was apparently going to draw the version of WW Earth One that Rucka was going to write, lost out on drawing it, just like Rucka lost out on writing it.
Why should Williams have left? He needs a paycheck, like anyone else. I like his work, but Rucka probably had a bigger chance to get hired by an indy company or Marvel if he left DC. A lot of people can't just tell the people they work for to f$%k off, especially when its one of the two biggest employers they can work for. The Batwoman situation was completely different than the WW Earth One situation, and I'm sure at the time there was no evidence that Williams and Blackman were going to get screwed when they took the job on batwoman.
Williams is not attached at the hip to Rucka, he makes his own career choices, and he chose to continue working on Batwoman. Heck, since he'd been working with Rucka on it, he was probably the closest you'd get to Rucka's run anyway. He's not a "scab" or a bad person for keeping his job and continuing to work on Rucka. Rucka made his own choices, and since I haven't seen anything to indicate that he's bitter about Batwoman or Williams not quitting, I'm pretty sure its not a huge deal for him. If everyone quit comics because someone they were working with got fired or screwed, DC would have about two writers. Things happen. Williams was under no obligation to quit working because Rucka lost an assignment, and its ridiculous to think there was any reason for him to not work on Batwoman.
I read Convergence #2 this morning and enjoyed it. It's basically continuing the Earth 2 story without all the Apokalips stuff so it feels a bit refreshing. I thought the meeting of the two Batmans (Batmen?) was a nice touch. I'll be reading a few of the tie-in's over lunch today.
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This is filler by fill-in teams - I think you are giving it more thought that the writers.
Well several people have, the heroes at least (like Flash and the turtle hero in the Speed Force book). To me Convergence is the best DC's had in almost four years. Even with some goofy plot points and one or two bad tie ins this "filler" makes the normal stuff look even worse than normal. Its going to suck when the event ends, although a few of the new books coming up in a few months actually seem interesting.
After reading several of the tie-in books I get the feeling that they are all being set up the same way. The first issue is the cliched "heroes meet and fight over a misunderstanding" and I'll bet the second issue wll be "heroes combine forces to defeat the real enemy".
I actually think virtually everyone will die except the earth-2 characters who have a new book coming out.
My thoughts on Convergence for this week:
Convergence #2:
Aquaman #1:
Batman - Shadow of the Bat #1:
Catwoman #1:
Green Arrow #1:
Green Lantern-Parallax #1:
Justice League International #1:
Suicide Squad #1:
Superboy #1:
Supergirl-Matrix #1:
Superman - The Man of Steel #1:
This week wasn't as good as Week one, but it was decent. My favorite books were probably Batman, Green Lantern-Parallax and Catwoman. Supergirl and Suicide Squad tie for the worst, although for different reasons.
Convergence #2:
Well, this was a little better than #1 I guess, because stuff happened. Stupid stuff, but it was something. They certainly killed offstan Lee's Justice League quickly, and with the stupidest alt earth they could. The two batman meeting was interesting, although it didn't lead to much. Overall, this was ok, but the main event of Convergence is still the least interesting part of it.
Aquaman #1:
Well, besides the fact that I'm honestly surprised that there is a DC character named Deathblow (although I shouldn't be, it sounds like a name that would have been very likely in the 90s), this was an ok issue. Aquaman himself wasn't super interesting, but the story was good enough for me to read the next one. That said, Aquaman should beat "Deathblow" easily, just based on what I've seen of Deathblow so far.
Batman - Shadow of the Bat #1:
I thought this was pretty good. It was interesting to see Azrael/crazy Batman back, and teaming with Bruce. The whale was a lame villain, but the story was interesting. I don't know who the gold people were at the end, though. Looking online, I guess she's a lame Wildstorm character. Not a very good opponent for the Batmen, but besides that I liked this, it was better than last week's Batman & Robin. I'll definitely read the next issue.
Catwoman #1:
This was actually pretty good. The art was decent, and Catwoman didn't feel out of character. It will be interesting to see her vs. Kingdom Come Batman. I;ll definitely be reading the next issue.
Green Arrow #1:
Bald, Kung Fu Guru Connor Hawke was weird. It would have been nice to see Oliver & son kicking butt together as a pair of green Arrows, but I guess this part of Convergence was from before Connor became GA. I also thought that the father/son reveal was really rushed, it seemed like they just wanted it out of the way. I'd be tempted to skip issue #2, but Oliver was alright in this, and I'm interested to see him against his KC daughter and the KC version of the older BC. So, I'll read the next issue.
Green Lantern-Parallax #1:
This was a good issue. Everything felt right, and Parallax Hal was done well. I don't have much else to say, but the issue was solid. I'll be reading the next one.
Justice League International #1:
So, the dome disables Roy Harper's arm, but not Red Tornado or metallo? I know its part of their "natural" abilities, like how Aquaman is still strong and breathes underwater, but after Roy's arm I'd atleast expect Red tornado's and Metallo's offensive abilities to be disabled under the dome. I know there was a line about "adapting" Tornado's powers, but why couldn't they "adapt" Roy's arm? Also, its f&*%ing Captain Marvel. Not freaking Shazam. Its not like the name is banned, so why do they keep retroactively calling the various Billy Batson's Shazam, even when their own stories called them Captain Marvel? Also, Billy shouldn't be there. Even if this is Kingdom Come from before the event, Billy hadn't been Cap in years in KC universe by the time of the events of the comic. You wouldn't have an adult version of Nightwing/Starfire's daughter along with a non brainwashed Captain Marvel.
I know the dome probably unbrainwashed Billy like how it fixed Parallax Hal (although that should have reversed itself at this point), and the dome probably fell sometime during the final fight in KC (but before the bomb fell) explaining why all these KC people are alive and together, but its still irritaiting. Besides that, I enjoyed the story. The JLI was done pretty well, and it was nice to see that Ted gets respect from his league at least, even ifthe other heroes are a bit too gung ho when it comes to fighting the other heroes. I'll read the next issue.
I know the dome probably unbrainwashed Billy like how it fixed Parallax Hal (although that should have reversed itself at this point), and the dome probably fell sometime during the final fight in KC (but before the bomb fell) explaining why all these KC people are alive and together, but its still irritaiting. Besides that, I enjoyed the story. The JLI was done pretty well, and it was nice to see that Ted gets respect from his league at least, even ifthe other heroes are a bit too gung ho when it comes to fighting the other heroes. I'll read the next issue.
Suicide Squad #1:
I've read all of Orstrander's Suicide Squad, and enjoyed it, and this is obviously trying to be it, but it doesn't work. The characters just don't quite fit. The art was tolerable until the end. I only knew it was Lex Luthor because the text said it was, he looked like ET fused with a human. I don't think I'll read the next issue of this, as a fan of the old Suicide Squad this just doesn't match up, it mostly just annoys me.
Superboy #1:
Superboy was fine. It was written well, but that's not a surprise, since Nicieza was writing it. The Kingdom Come heroes still seem a bit off, but this is a really weird situation to put them in anyway. Superboy was fairly likeable, which I didn't expect based on the little I know of Superboy during his early years. I'll be reading the next issue.
Supergirl-Matrix #1:
This was boring, and really confusing. I thought this was supposed to be the supergirl from Peter david's run, and I read a fair amount of that, but looking on wikipedia this is the version of Supergirl that ended up bonding to a human teenager, and the combined person was Peter david's Supergirl. This version wasn't very interesting, and I'm not sure if the red headed/bearded guy is supposed to be Lex Luthor or not. She called him Lex, but he obviously isn't any Lex Luthor I've seen. The art on this issue was also very mixed. I won't be reading the second issue of this one.
Superman - The Man of Steel #1:
I guess every single mechanical superhero thing kept working under the dome, except for Roy harper's arm. I kind of wish they'd explained that better. The transformed cat's weird looking body reminds me of Warlock of the New Mutants. I guess the Gen13 idiots just fried Steel, they seem way too violent for a group I thought was supposed to be superheroes, not villains. This issue was just kind of stupid, I won't be reading the next one.
This week wasn't as good as Week one, but it was decent. My favorite books were probably Batman, Green Lantern-Parallax and Catwoman. Supergirl and Suicide Squad tie for the worst, although for different reasons.
He's mentioned in the solicits so I'll not spoiler tag it - The Lex Luthor featured in the supergirl comic is from the early 1990s, Lex Luthor died and his illegitimate heir turned up (from Oz) to take over... except it was actually just Lex in a cloned body.
Well, I've never read Death and Return of Superman. I was 2 when he died, and three when he came back. I'm of course familiar with the story, especially from the animated adaptation Superman: Doomsday, but I've never read the MASSIVE 47 or so issue event. I know the basics, though. I also know that Steel and Superboy first showed up during that event, although I didn't know Matrix Supergirl was that old. Since I know the basic story pretty well its never seemed like a good use to time to read it, especially since its so long. I was aware of matrix Supergirl, but it was Peter David's version that was a mix of (apparently) matrix SG and a human girl that I'm more familiar with. The knowledge of what was up with Matrix SG and red head Luthor doesn't make the Convergence: Supergirl-matrix #1 comic any better, though.
The Death and Return of Superman is actually a really great story. It's still my favorite Superman story overall (obviously it's a product of the 90s). It's also one of the most influential and best selling comics of all time.
You could get the novelization for a penny plus shipping. ($4)
You could get the Death trade for $6.69 used. And the Return trade for $12 used.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...s=stripbooks&field-keywords=death+of+superman
You could get the novelization for a penny plus shipping. ($4)
You could get the Death trade for $6.69 used. And the Return trade for $12 used.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...s=stripbooks&field-keywords=death+of+superman