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DC and Marvel merged

Next question (one I already obliquely hinted at): Let's say Superman and Captain America get together and decide to form a Justice League of seven members. Who are the other five?

The Big Seven
Superman
Batman
Captain America
Wonder Woman
Thor
Iron Man
Flash

The Second Seven
Wonder Man
Green Lantern
Giant-Man
Wasp
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter
Hawkman

I'd say switch that up some. Switch Batman, Captain America, and Flash with Wonder Man, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter then replace Wonder Man with Ms. Marvel. So it looks like this:

The Big Seven
Superman
Ms. Marvel
Green Lantern
Wonder Woman
Thor
Iron Man
Martian Manhunter

The Second Seven
Batman
Captain America
Giant-Man
Wasp
Aquaman
Flash
Hawkman
I was building the teams the old fashion way: who are the big names. "Balancing" the team in any fashion just didn't cross my mind. So the Big Seven/JLA are the marquee names. (Flash or GL could awitch actually because they are on the borderline) The Second Seven/Avengers are the ones with a slightly less cachet keeping it in the spirit of "Cap's Kooky Quartet"

Kestrel said:
Anwar said:
Does this mean that the JSA would have battled Red Skull and the first Baron Zemo in their heyday?

Hmm, could make Captain America and the Invaders (right?) one of the many WW2 teams, and an ally of the JSA. Might make things more interesting when Cap is revived and all his friends have aged quite a bit.
The JSA didn't do that much Nazi fighting durring WWII. They kinda sat out the middle part. Though as part of the All Star-Squadron retcon they kicked some Axis ass. The various GA Marvel heroes would have been part of the ASQ like the DC/Quality/Fawcett heroes are. The retcon Marvel teams ( the Invaders, The Liberty Legion and the Twelve) would be sub groups in the ASQ. Weird that the only "real" WWII era team that Marvel had was the Young Allies.

Thinking of legacies, I've always been struck by how much Stargirl's costume (and Sly Pemberton before her) has some similarities to Cap's. Would Star-Spangled Kid be another Cap sidekick a la Bucky and would people link Stargirl with Cap, since Starman's I think not as well known?
The Star-spangled Kid was the "senior" member in his partnership so I don't think he's gonna be a sidekick. Depends if those people are "in-universe" or not. Not every character wearing red white and blue needs a conection to Cap.

Get Geoff Johns on it; he could revive them well I think. Both the Marvel and DC universes had several superhero teams running around during WW2, right?
Alex Ross, Ed Brubaker and J. Michael Straczynski have all taken a crack at it.
 
These characterizations have stuck. Still, I think it might be unfair to automatically paint Hal Jordan as Pro-Registration. He's been disparaged as an errand boy for the Guardians, but that shouldn't mean he trusts the U.S. Government to same extent. I call for more nuance and less stereotyping when it comes to Hal's views about government and hero registration.

I dunno, I think Green Lanterns by and large would be pretty okay with registration. I mean, they're basically interstellar cops and they're all registered with the Guardians, right? They might wanna make sure the information would remain secure or amend it in some ways, but I see the basic concept of registration as being pretty in line with the Corps.

Also, there are probably some rules against interfering with local governments without good reason, and I can't see the guardians looking kindly upon the local Green Lantern fighting a war over the registration law.

Plus, Hal Jordan already works for the government as a test pilot, so it's not a stretch to have him side with the government (at least, in the beginning).
 
I think right now the Mighty Avengers would be the ones they'd be interested. New Avengers are more an anti-government resistance force, and Norman's Dark Avengers...aren't the type the JSA would be interested in.

Does this mean that the JSA would have battled Red Skull and the first Baron Zemo in their heyday?

As someone else noted, the various Marvel teams would like as not be under the All-Star Squadron banner. I could see rivalry between the Nazi groups and operatives, like Master Man vs. Ubermensch. An actual Valkyrie, Gudrun IIRC, served the Nazis, leading to problems with Asgard.

I would like to see The Whizzer and Miss America survive, maybe going into cryo to try and cure their fertility problem, emerging close enough to the present to be real adoptive parents to Wanda and Pietro, counter-balancing their spiraling nutsiness. Maybe Fate is the one who casts them into sleep.

For that matter, what would the relation of the Sorcerers Supreme be to the myriad of DC Mystics, none of whom are known for respecting a hierarchy? Maybe the Sorcerers Supreme were established as an earthly means of reining in the Spectre and Eclipso.

This would all need a Continuity Cop Supreme.
 
Miss America brings up the duplication of names. Both companies have a Miss America. I guess one needs to change their name to Runner Up. :)
 
Miss America brings up the duplication of names. Both companies have a Miss America. I guess one needs to change their name to Runner Up. :)

Oh yeah, that's right, and what about the Captains Marvel?

But then, even in the Marvel U alone, there have been a couple of people named Captain Marvel, consecutively if not simultaneously. And plenty of other hero names have been reused within each company. There have been multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns, Captains America, etc. So duplication of names maybe isn't a problem.
 
Miss America brings up the duplication of names. Both companies have a Miss America. I guess one needs to change their name to Runner Up. :)

Oh yeah, that's right, and what about the Captains Marvel?

But then, even in the Marvel U alone, there have been a couple of people named Captain Marvel, consecutively if not simultaneously. And plenty of other hero names have been reused within each company. There have been multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns, Captains America, etc. So duplication of names maybe isn't a problem.
Both Miss America are Golden Age characters so in their case it migh be a problem. I'd place the DC/Fawcett Captain Marvel with the Golden Age Heroes and Mar-Vell with the current group. Since Mar-Vell is dead and his succesors never really seem to catch on, the door is open for the Original Captain Marvel to be the main one.
 
Miss America brings up the duplication of names. Both companies have a Miss America. I guess one needs to change their name to Runner Up. :)

Oh yeah, that's right, and what about the Captains Marvel?

But then, even in the Marvel U alone, there have been a couple of people named Captain Marvel, consecutively if not simultaneously. And plenty of other hero names have been reused within each company. There have been multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns, Captains America, etc. So duplication of names maybe isn't a problem.

Obe way to deal with that would be to stop "sliding" the timeline and let characters get older and retire or die or whatever.

A few years back John Byrne did a couple mini-series involving Superman and Batman that did just that (Superman-Batman Generations, II, and III). We saw the two of them meet back in the 1930's and then the story would jump ahead in chapters about ten years apart or so (IIRC). As the story progressed we saw the lives of these characters and the world around them progress. It was very interesting stuff.
 
^There was a time when comics really did seem to be moving forward and evolving. Teams like the JLA and the X-Men changed their rosters, new generations came in, legacy titles like the Flash and Green Lantern were passed on, characters like Peter Parker matured and advanced through life, characters like Jean Grey and Barry Allen died. But then, around the '80s and '90s, I guess the people who'd grown up on the old comics began writing the new ones or running the companies, because all these changes started getting reversed. The original team rosters came back, the dead were resurrected, everything was reset. Nostalgia won out over progress.
 
Miss America brings up the duplication of names. Both companies have a Miss America. I guess one needs to change their name to Runner Up. :)

Oh yeah, that's right, and what about the Captains Marvel?

But then, even in the Marvel U alone, there have been a couple of people named Captain Marvel, consecutively if not simultaneously. And plenty of other hero names have been reused within each company. There have been multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns, Captains America, etc. So duplication of names maybe isn't a problem.

Obe way to deal with that would be to stop "sliding" the timeline and let characters get older and retire or die or whatever.

A few years back John Byrne did a couple mini-series involving Superman and Batman that did just that (Superman-Batman Generations, II, and III). We saw the two of them meet back in the 1930's and then the story would jump ahead in chapters about ten years apart or so (IIRC). As the story progressed we saw the lives of these characters and the world around them progress. It was very interesting stuff.
Yet John Byrne would be the last person to suggest that such a thing should occur outside of an imaginary story or alternate reality.

I'm not interested in reading about Clark Kentj, Jr or Connor Kent as Superman. Superman is Clark Kent, his parents are from Krypton and he was raised in Smallville by the Kents. Batman is Bruce Wayne, not Dick Grayson.

Mainstream superhero comics thrive on the illusion of change. Heroes are aways at the midpoint of their careers. Alot can happen in that midpoint, so there is no need to retire or age these heroes. Not if you want long term success with them. And that should be the goal. Every generation should experience these heroes in their prime.
 
Yet John Byrne would be the last person to suggest that such a thing should occur outside of an imaginary story or alternate reality.

I'm not interested in reading about Clark Kentj, Jr or Connor Kent as Superman. Superman is Clark Kent, his parents are from Krypton and he was raised in Smallville by the Kents. Batman is Bruce Wayne, not Dick Grayson.

Mainstream superhero comics thrive on the illusion of change. Heroes are aways at the midpoint of their careers. Alot can happen in that midpoint, so there is no need to retire or age these heroes. Not if you want long term success with them. And that should be the goal. Every generation should experience these heroes in their prime.

No reason you couldn't still have that as well.

Look at Star Trek for a moment: while we have gotten a Next Generation, and other assorted spin-off crews and sequels, we are also still getting stories about Kirk and Spock and their adventures back on NCC-1701 sans any suffix in the TOS-era. Even though we know those characters eventually aged and moved on to other assignments and adventures, and such.

So why not offer stories about Clark Kent Jr. as well as stories set with the original generation(s) of characters?

Christopher said:
^There was a time when comics really did seem to be moving forward and evolving. Teams like the JLA and the X-Men changed their rosters, new generations came in, legacy titles like the Flash and Green Lantern were passed on, characters like Peter Parker matured and advanced through life, characters like Jean Grey and Barry Allen died. But then, around the '80s and '90s, I guess the people who'd grown up on the old comics began writing the new ones or running the companies, because all these changes started getting reversed. The original team rosters came back, the dead were resurrected, everything was reset. Nostalgia won out over progress.

I agree with you. I think Crisis on Infinite Earths was the first big nail in that particular coffin. It's interesting how much effort DC Comics seems to have made in the last couple of years to essentially undo that story and bring back the multiverse.

I would also like to see the end of the yearly "Event" stories and have DC and Marvel go back to just telling stories without having them interupted every six months or so to get tied into whatever Crisis or Invasion or whatever is screwing witht he continuity that year.
 
^There was a time when comics really did seem to be moving forward and evolving. Teams like the JLA and the X-Men changed their rosters, new generations came in, legacy titles like the Flash and Green Lantern were passed on, characters like Peter Parker matured and advanced through life, characters like Jean Grey and Barry Allen died. But then, around the '80s and '90s, I guess the people who'd grown up on the old comics began writing the new ones or running the companies, because all these changes started getting reversed. The original team rosters came back, the dead were resurrected, everything was reset. Nostalgia won out over progress.
Changing rosters have always been a part of the illusion of change I mentioned. Green Lantern and Flash didn't become "legacies" until the Crisis. And Hal and Barry lost the titles not because they grew old but because they weren't generating sales. So instead of finding a way to make them work they killed off the characters. Jean Grey came back to life in like two years, she's hardly the posterchild for staying dead. Barry Allen stayed dead for twenty years. I guess Bucky held the record though. The Bucky rule is more. :(

Sad thing is all this change and aging and "moving forward" has resulted in diminishing sales and an aging fanbase. Not the best recipe for success.
 
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Yet John Byrne would be the last person to suggest that such a thing should occur outside of an imaginary story or alternate reality.

I'm not interested in reading about Clark Kentj, Jr or Connor Kent as Superman. Superman is Clark Kent, his parents are from Krypton and he was raised in Smallville by the Kents. Batman is Bruce Wayne, not Dick Grayson.

Mainstream superhero comics thrive on the illusion of change. Heroes are aways at the midpoint of their careers. Alot can happen in that midpoint, so there is no need to retire or age these heroes. Not if you want long term success with them. And that should be the goal. Every generation should experience these heroes in their prime.

No reason you couldn't still have that as well.

Look at Star Trek for a moment: while we have gotten a Next Generation, and other assorted spin-off crews and sequels, we are also still getting stories about Kirk and Spock and their adventures back on NCC-1701 sans any suffix in the TOS-era. Even though we know those characters eventually aged and moved on to other assignments and adventures, and such.

So why not offer stories about Clark Kent Jr. as well as stories set with the original generation(s) of characters?

.
But those stories mostly take place in ancillary media rather than on in treks "homeground" of TV and film. TV and film are hampered by the reality that actors age. Comics have no such restrictions. Not to mention these days the Kirk and Spock on film are a couple of guys in their prime.

When I was kid we had "imaginary stories" and "Earth 2" that told the stories of a Superman, jr and Mr and Mrs Superman. Concepts that worked best in limited exposure. So I've no problem with those stories taking place outside of the main continuity.
 
Mainstream superhero comics thrive on the illusion of change. Heroes are aways at the midpoint of their careers. Alot can happen in that midpoint, so there is no need to retire or age these heroes. Not if you want long term success with them. And that should be the goal. Every generation should experience these heroes in their prime.

For something like Superman or Batman, maybe. But X-Men did well for a couple of decades with a continually evolving roster. It wasn't stuck with Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, Iceman, and Angel forever; a whole generation's "first" X-Men team was Cyke, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Banshee, etc. And that team went through many more changes over the years that followed. It went a long way without being reset to the original team configuration. Even when the original five were reunited, it was as a separate team, and it was still many more years before the old guard rejoined the X-Men.

And then there's Spider-Man. He went through many changes over the decades, from high school to college to grad school, from relationship to relationship and ultimately to marriage. Norman Osborn died and stayed dead for decades. It was later generations of creators who eventually came along and undid the changes.

So it's hardly fair to call it an "illusion of change" when it took something like twenty years for things to be reset. Today it's an illusion of change because people's expectations are so locked in by the easy accessibility of collections, by movie and TV remakes getting back to basics, and just by the critical mass of the accumulated resets. But it hasn't always been thus. There was indeed a time when comic creators like Lee and Conway and Claremont and the like made genuine changes that they intended to be permanent. The fact that later creators decided to erase those changes doesn't mean they were merely hollow illusions at the time they happened.
 
Mainstream superhero comics thrive on the illusion of change. Heroes are aways at the midpoint of their careers. Alot can happen in that midpoint, so there is no need to retire or age these heroes. Not if you want long term success with them. And that should be the goal. Every generation should experience these heroes in their prime.

For something like Superman or Batman, maybe. But X-Men did well for a couple of decades with a continually evolving roster. It wasn't stuck with Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, Iceman, and Angel forever; a whole generation's "first" X-Men team was Cyke, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Banshee, etc. And that team went through many more changes over the years that followed. It went a long way without being reset to the original team configuration. Even when the original five were reunited, it was as a separate team, and it was still many more years before the old guard rejoined the X-Men.

And then there's Spider-Man. He went through many changes over the decades, from high school to college to grad school, from relationship to relationship and ultimately to marriage. Norman Osborn died and stayed dead for decades. It was later generations of creators who eventually came along and undid the changes.

So it's hardly fair to call it an "illusion of change" when it took something like twenty years for things to be reset. Today it's an illusion of change because people's expectations are so locked in by the easy accessibility of collections, by movie and TV remakes getting back to basics, and just by the critical mass of the accumulated resets. But it hasn't always been thus. There was indeed a time when comic creators like Lee and Conway and Claremont and the like made genuine changes that they intended to be permanent. The fact that later creators decided to erase those changes doesn't mean they were merely hollow illusions at the time they happened.
All teams have roster changes, thats been true since the JSA started back in the 40's. Its a change but not a major one. Probably on the level of changing a costume. Even the FF has had members beyond the Richards family and Ben Grimm. That part of the nature of Team books.

Spider-Man went off course earlier than some. When they had him graduate from college ( some might say High School). Giving him a regular girl friend ( one thats a supermodel!!!!) also not a very "spider-man" situation.

Its desperate times in the comic biz. So they're trying to bring back what worked and made money. If comics want to be more than a launch pad and idea factory for movie studios they need to start selling more books. And to an audience thats under 30.

I don't know how permanent Lee, Conway and especially Claremont intended those "changes" to be. Lee practically wrote the book on dead aint always dead.
 
Well, at least if you want to go with legacy characters you can have Wally's twin kinds be contemporaries of Spider-Girl. Maybe have Batman Beyond co-exist with Marvel 2099 (especially since Spider-Man 2099 isn't the jokester Peter is).

For this merged Universe, Wayne Enterprises and LexCorp would probably have to be better defined and less their "generic MegaCorp" selves. After all, Marvel went to the trouble of properly designing THEIR Companies like Stark Industries and OsCorp. What would WI's main purpose be, make LexCorp a proper Arms Manufacturer (to create the natural competition with Stark), etc.

How would the Amazons deal with the Marvel Hercules (who had a CONSENSUAL encounter with Hippolyta) since he's a regular part of this new world. Since he's running around using his powers, can he just cut off Captain Marvel's strength? What about Thor and the Asgardian pantheon?

The GLC, there would be multiple Skrull, Kree and Shi'ar GLs since they all control more than one sector. The explanation for their empires being that the GLC maybe were too busy fighting the Celestials or repelling Galactus. Maybe an invasion from Annihilus wiped a bunch of them out.

The Phantom Zone could be a emptier part of the Negative Zone, hopefully Annihilus or Blastaar never find it or those trapped folks are screwed. Or he enslaves them.

There should be marvel heroes/villains in Gotham/Chicago, just to show it's not the isolated place it is in DC's world (which is bizarre since the JSA are supposed to be HQed there).
 
Well, at least if you want to go with legacy characters you can have Wally's twin kinds be contemporaries of Spider-Girl. Maybe have Batman Beyond co-exist with Marvel 2099 (especially since Spider-Man 2099 isn't the jokester Peter is).

For this merged Universe, Wayne Enterprises and LexCorp would probably have to be better defined and less their "generic MegaCorp" selves. After all, Marvel went to the trouble of properly designing THEIR Companies like Stark Industries and OsCorp. What would WI's main purpose be, make LexCorp a proper Arms Manufacturer (to create the natural competition with Stark), etc.

How would the Amazons deal with the Marvel Hercules (who had a CONSENSUAL encounter with Hippolyta) since he's a regular part of this new world. Since he's running around using his powers, can he just cut off Captain Marvel's strength? What about Thor and the Asgardian pantheon?

The GLC, there would be multiple Skrull, Kree and Shi'ar GLs since they all control more than one sector. The explanation for their empires being that the GLC maybe were too busy fighting the Celestials or repelling Galactus. Maybe an invasion from Annihilus wiped a bunch of them out.

The Phantom Zone could be a emptier part of the Negative Zone, hopefully Annihilus or Blastaar never find it or those trapped folks are screwed. Or he enslaves them.

There should be marvel heroes/villains in Gotham/Chicago, just to show it's not the isolated place it is in DC's world (which is bizarre since the JSA are supposed to be HQed there).

I think LexCorp and Wayne Ent, are mega corps. They have their hand in everything: Science R&D, Healthcare, Weapons, electronics, aerospace, fianace you name it. My Dad used to work for an aerospace company owned by Ford!!!!

With Hercules, go with the Marvel continuity. Herc is Hipps old boyfriend. I don't think Herc can cut off Billy Batson. He made a deal with the Wizard Shazam and can't back out. Don't see any problems with Thor in this new universe. DCs Thor wasn't much of a player.

The GLC rings go to who ever is most worthy not who's top dog in the sector. The "Kree" sector GL might be a Cotati. The "Skrull" sector GL could be from a subject race. The "Shi'ar "sector GL might be from Fang's people. The Guardians have let other "empires" thrive in the Universe, I don't think they'll change policy for the Kree, Skrull or Shi'ar.

I think the Negative Zone should be part of the Anti-Matter Universe of Qward. Let the Phantom Zone stay what it is.

The JSA has been in NYC since the start of the old JSA title. (ten years ago???)Their HQ was Wes (Sandman) Dodds old mansion.
 
But that's what I mean, LexCorp and WE are just basically big plot devices to justify where Bruce and Lex get their tech and stuff. They do the same thing with OsCorp and S Industries but at least it's clear just what both of those companies really do (Weapons, and Weapons/Chemical manufacturing). It would hardly hurt either of them if they just solidly stated that LexCorp is primarily an Arms Manufacturer, and Wayne Enterprises is..whatever the primary purpose is beyond "Big Company that owns lots of stuff."

Perhaps the Kree would get annoyed with GL interference with their affairs regarding Earth: "Hal Jordan, you stand ACCUSED!"

I thought the JSA were supposed to be in Gotham, I know that Alan Scott was HQed there when he was the main GL.

I think Frank Castle should be in Gotham (or operate there most often), and be on Batman's "threat list" after Joker.

What about Xavier and Magneto's reactions to all the metahumans, alien beings and stuff? Would Weapon X be the secret backer of Cadmus? Mr Sinister as the head of Cadmus? Perhaps he would extend his genetic obsession with obtaining the DNA of aliens who look just like humans as well (Kryptonians, Daxamites) just to find out WHY they are so similar.
 
Well, WayneEnt is a plot device. It explains where he gets those wonderful toys. So they need to manufacture what ever "toy" Batman needs. Remember Bruce's "cover" is being a playboy slacker not a genius industrialist like Tony. I could see Lex in the weapons biz. But he's such a control freak he has hand in everything.

As long as the GLs dont try and overthrow the Empire the Kree will probably leave them alone. The blue dwarves probably worked a deal with the Big Green Head.

The JSA haven't been in Gotham since the Crisis ( in current continuity) I dont think Alan Scott hangs their either. IIRC he moved to the West Coast around the time Infinity Inc started up.

Given all the non-mutant heros in the Marvel Universe (aliens, mutates, enhanced humans, inhumans, Eternals, Gods ect) Magneto or Xavier probably wont bat an eye at the DC versions of those. Cadmus probably has more in common with the group that produced Him/Adam Warlock or the High Evolutionary than Weapon X or Xaviers line of interest. I can see Mister Sinister taking an interest in Cadmus' work. Or perhaps that of the "Evil Factory" Cadmus' dark reflection.
 
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