David Mack is GUSHING about it...this should settle it

[BillJ]

Can you give me an example?

Example of what? That it did nothing to expand the Trek universe? The proof is pretty much in the pudding. There is nothing there to expand on in the future. Unlike Into Darkness, which left us on the edge of a Klingon war, Section 31 corruption of Starfleet, the disposition of the Augments.

 

[cultcross]

I thought is was by far the worst of the Abrams films. But it was still solidly entertaining, it did nothing to expand the Trek universe.

I'd say it did far more to expand the Star Trek universe than either the 'reboot TOS and get the new gang together with loads and loads of references and callbacks' and the 'actual direct remake with more contrivances, boobs, and explosions' of the previous two JJTrek films. We got, for the first time since Saavik, a proper new character who might stick around. We got a space station/installation which is brand new to Star Trek in concept and design. And it swung Trek back to a trope of TOS which had died out in the utopia of post 1980s Trek - the Starfleet commander gone rogue/mad. We often treat wars on Star Trek like they're historical footnotes, without a lot of impact on the people who fought them, but Beyond showed us how risky that approach is, putting a damaged man with full blow PTSD in charge of an exploration vessel and just hoping things worked out. Although I would definitely have preferred a movie without a 'villain', if we had to have one, that was a good place to take the movies imho. The threat of facing yourself in the mirror was a TOS theme that was worth revisiting for the modern age.

 

[Nyotarules]

Example of what? That it did nothing to expand the Trek universe? The proof is pretty much in the pudding. There is nothing there to expand on in the future. Unlike Into Darkness, which left us on the edge of a Klingon war, Section 31 corruption of Starfleet, the disposition of the Augments.

Well Kirk might have a job on hold after the 5 year mission as Vice Admiral. He is speeding up the ranks! Next three movies he will be running Starfleet!

 

[SPCTRE]

This should end any debate

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Star Trek: Beyond is the best of the Kelvin movies. I so flabbergasted that people thought of was the worst.

I rank Star Trek: Beyond as the best of the three because its pacing actually allowed time for the characters to discuss things (which gives the audience time to consider things), and I thought the dialogue was the most engaging. Engaging dialogue makes me feel more like a participant in the plot rather than a spectator. The first two films -- while fun -- made me feel only like a spectator (which I suppose I was, but still).

Don't get me wrong -- I found the first two to be entertaining as well, but only because of the break-neck speed of plot. However (to me, anyway) I find roller-coaster ride films like the first two to leave me lower at the end -- probably because the action took me so high during the film that bythe end of the film your emotions are spent. The third film was more even pacing throughout, and I left the film (and reflect back on the film) with higher emotions. As I said, the dialogue drew me in as participant.

But as always, that's just me; others' mileage may vary.

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, that is completely unreasonable. There's no fucking way this can be worse than 'Into Darkness'.

This is where opinion comes into it. Into Darkness, to me, is so bad its entertaining, which makes it a lot better then Star Trek 09 or Insurrection. So, yeah, STD, to me, is way worse then Into darkness. Its worse then Insurrection, too. I'm not sure if it pisses me off more then ST09, and that is one of the few things I won't know until I watch it.

Beyond was entertaining, exciting, uplifting and smelt of TOS Trek in a long missed way, I'd love a TV show that was half as good.
Insurrection and Nemesis were the creaks and groans of a franchise collapsing up its own rectum, so the less of that sort of Trek is in this new show, the better.

I agree. As someone who loathes ST09 and thinks Into Darkness is only good because its bad in an entertaining way, I genuinely love Star Trek Beyond. It made me actually like the reboot cast (outside of Pegg and Urban who I always liked in their roles), and Star Trek 4 is really the only Trek project I'll be excited for at this point (as long as the director and writers of 09 and STID don't make a comeback). Its everything the first two reboot movies weren't, and its just a great movie. It doesn't beat my favorite (TWOK is my favorite movie period, not just my favorite Trek movie) but Beyond is neck and neck with First Contact.

That said, I do think Nemesis is hugely flawed but not a terrible movie. Insurrection is fucking putrid, though.

 

[Tuskin38]

So, yeah, STD, to me, is way worse then Into darkness.

You haven't even seen the damn show yet.

 

[kirk55555]

You haven't even seen the damn show yet.

I've seen more then enough. The cancerous Cryptkeeper aliens they're calling Klingons in STDare more then enough, since they somehow look worse then the terrible reboot klingons. I'm not going to write another huge post about all my reasons I loathe STD and how STID is better. I don't need to see the show to know the story is worse, the characters are worse and its a bigger insult to the franchise. I don't even think STID is a good movie, just entertaining, and its still better in every area then STD.

 

[BillJ]

I'm not going to write another huge post about all my reasons I loathe STD...

Why do you spend so much time on things you loath?

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

I've seen more then enough. The cancerous Cryptkeeper aliens they're calling Klingons in STDare more then enough, since they somehow look worse then the terrible reboot klingons. I'm not going to write another huge post about all my reasons I loathe STD and how STID is better. I don't need to see the show to know the story is worse, the characters are worse and its a bigger insult to the franchise. I don't even think STID is a good movie, just entertaining, and its still better in every area then STD.

Can you tell me the plot outline? Because I'd like some spoilers. Tell me about the Stamets character, or Saru, they seem interesting. I don't want you to pretend to like them, just tell me all about their character arcs throughout this season. Be detailed. Tell me about what they go through. Tell me who dies, even. Others who know things can't say anything due to the NDA, but considering you have some kind of ESP, there's no way they can bind you to an NDA.

 

[Krandor]

I've seen more then enough. The cancerous Cryptkeeper aliens they're calling Klingons in STDare more then enough, since they somehow look worse then the terrible reboot klingons. I'm not going to write another huge post about all my reasons I loathe STD and how STID is better. I don't need to see the show to know the story is worse, the characters are worse and its a bigger insult to the franchise. I don't even think STID is a good movie, just entertaining, and its still better in every area then STD.

Then why are you here? Seems like your time would be better spent on stuff you enjoy.

 

[Kor]

You lost me at Tie-in novel. Of course he will praise the show.....

Not necessarily, as shown by the example of Diane Carey cited earlier.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

I hope he's right. I hope it is spectacular.

 

[Noname Given]

I hope he's right. I hope it is spectacular.

I do too, but for myself, I still consider TOS Season One the absolute best season of the "Star Trek Franchise" produced to date; followed close behind by ENT Season 4; (my absolute favorite two episodes from that season were "Babel One" and "United" -- and yes, I know "The Anear" is tthe third part and closes out that entire contained story and it was okay, but I really love the two before it.)

I also still consider TOS - "The Corbomite Maneuver" -- [The full uncut version as It really suffers when it's edited down from the original running time to 42 minutes]; to be the absolute best (and a really good encapsulated representation of what 'Star Trek' is about) episode made.

It was also the first 'regular' episode of the series that was filmed, (but was the 9th shown only because of all the time needed for it's post production VFX.)

So yeah, ST: D's first season has (IMO) a high bar to jump over for David Mack's claim to hold true for me.

Time will tell.

 

[Mudd]

The first year of the original series is the absolute best by an unsurpassable margin - everything that Star Trek is, is there and everything flows from it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

As I said the other day, TOS season 1 is one of the best in TV history. The other show's first seasons are a mixed bag, ranging from entertainingly okay to utterly awful.

 

[unimatrix7]

As I said the other day, TOS season 1 is one of the best in TV history.

I find that statement amusing.

Back on topic, I'm loathe to accept the verdict of a Trek novelist. Most Trek novels I've inflicted on myself are scarcely better than middle of the road fanfiction.net stuff. 6,000 Borg cubez omg!

 

[kirk55555]

Can you tell me the plot outline? Because I'd like some spoilers. Tell me about the Stamets character, or Saru, they seem interesting. I don't want you to pretend to like them, just tell me all about their character arcs throughout this season. Be detailed. Tell me about what they go through. Tell me who dies, even. Others who know things can't say anything due to the NDA, but considering you have some kind of ESP, there's no way they can bind you to an NDA.

None of that matters, at least when it comes to forming my opinion. Who gives a shit what their crappy character arcs are? That's not the show. the giant fuck you that are the "klingons", the designs, the second secret sibling of spock, the shittiness of most of the actors and all the people in charge are the show. I don't need to know the specifics of the crap story. I know how they've fucked over the klingons and Trek in general, anything else is just putrid icing on the shit cake that is STD, initials that are also completely descriptive to what this show is to the Star Trek franchise. Hopefully its one that goes away without killing the infected.

Then why are you here? Seems like your time would be better spent on stuff you enjoy.

I'm not going away because some people seem to want the forum to just be one big Discovery party with no opposing opinions. Its technically Star Trek (although only by the barest of technicalities), so I'm going to discuss it. Its the biggest trainwreck in the franchise's history, that's something you pay attention to. Well, at least I do because I frequently watch crap if it has a connection to things I actually like.

 

[Tuskin38]

I find that statement amusing.

Back on topic, I'm loathe to accept the verdict of a Trek novelist. Most Trek novels I've inflicted on myself are scarcely better than middle of the road fanfiction.net stuff. 6,000 Borg cubez omg!

David Mack has written amazing Novels.

Also the point is that he needs to know the lore to write these books, make sure it fits, and no purposeful contradictions. So he'd have good judgement when it comes to how Discovery fits.

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

None of that matters, at least when it comes to forming my opinion. Who gives a shit what their crappy character arcs are? That's not the show. the giant fuck you that are the "klingons", the designs, the second secret sibling of spock, the shittiness of most of the actors and all the people in charge are the show. I don't need to know the specifics of the crap story. I know how they've fucked over the klingons and Trek in general, anything else is just putrid icing on the shit cake that is STD, initials that are also completely descriptive to what this show is to the Star Trek franchise. Hopefully its one that goes away without killing the infected.



I'm not going away because some people seem to want the forum to just be one big Discovery party with no opposing opinions. Its technically Star Trek (although only by the barest of technicalities), so I'm going to discuss it. Its the biggest trainwreck in the franchise's history, that's something you pay attention to. Well, at least I do because I frequently watch crap if it has a connection to things I actually like.

Well, all I can say is, I look forward to your continued insights over the next long while.