Dating

[sidious618]

Hey, I have to spend money on my own mascara, make up, hairspray, lip gloss and cover up.

What?

 

[Venardhi]

Fancy underwear, makeup, shoes, etc. etc. really does add up.

Now if you find yourself a girl who does without (or with little of) most of these things, you'll probably find a girl with cash to spare to throw in for dinner more often.

 

[sidious618]

Fancy underwear, makeup, shoes, etc. etc. really does add up.

Oh, you're telling me. And that stuff is never on sale! How am I supposed to leave the house without it, though? I gotta lay out the big bucks.

 

[SicOne]

(2) Insist that she pay her own way, or at least don't offer her dinner and/or drinks. Or meet her somewhere that costs nothing, like a park. If there's no eating or drinking gratis when you do take the time to meet with her, it can also be a good way to determine if it's your company she enjoys, or the other things; the result of that determination can only educate you on her intentions. You need not be a dick about it; you can diplomatically explain that you'd like to get together (or that you're stepping out to a specific place on your own for dinner and she's welcome to meet you there, if she wants, but you'd better actually be there) but times are tight, and if she has any knowledge of the current world situation whatsoever she should understand that the crappy economy means everyone is looking to cut back a little here and there. If she balks at that, a little reminder that you've picked the tab the last several times you ate together might be in order, and pay attention to her reaction.

Even if you were boyfriend/girlfriend, having her offer from time to time to buy you drinks and/or dinner, or even cook dinner for the both of you, would only be reasonable. If she's flat-broke, offer to purchase the ingredients for a recipe of her choice and bring them over, splurge for a nice dessert, and offer to do the dishes and clean-up afterwards. Everyone's gotta eat, right? That would give her an opportunity to reciprocate for your generosity thus far, while still keeping the romantic portion out of it; just two friends having dinner. Ladies, am I out of line?

This was a great post but I have trouble with this #2 section.

A pattern is established where Tim is paying, so suddenly saying for her to pay is very blunt no matter how it is phrased. Also, there's no polite way to ask anyone to cook for you, unless you are paying them.

I would suggest instead to offer to cook a meal yourself, and even better, ask her to cook with you. This is a more companionly thing to do, whether she is after a free meal or not, it is much more pleasant company to do it together. It gives you a chance to work side by side, one chops, one stirs, and chat all the while. You would be at your place, not a restaurant, which does not mean you should make a move, you should let her. But if she casually brushes your arm or fingers while you work side by side, take her lead and do the same...

I agree, LaxScrutiny (thanks for having a lady chime in!), the pattern was established...but what we need to do is break the pattern and therefore try to break the ambiguity. And if she insists that they're "just friends", a true friend would understand the desire to go dutch. Tim M did go back and edit to add further information, which I will review momentarily, but wanted to get to you first. You are right, there is also no polite way to ask anyone to cook for you (though a foot rub combined with a "Please?" and making the boo-boo eyes at her usually convinces Mrs. SicOne to whip up her patented Ice Cream Dessert...); I like your advice better than mine, now, on how to cook the meal. But I would add that Tim M insists she help in the kitchen right along with him ("Hey, Susie, can you dice up these eggs while I peel these carrots, please?"), otherwise he's doing all of the grunt work and we're right back to square one.

 

[sidious618]

Oh, if we're just friends then you pay for your own God damn meal.

 

[SicOne]

A precursor to how this situation developed should have been when she gave you the "I just want to be friends" speech via text message. Text message? That's rather impersonal, and impolite. But because (I can only presume) you felt hurt and wanted a further explanation, which is only sensible, and you did after all wish to remain friends and not lose that time and emotional investment in the relationship thus far, you called her rather than texting her back (thereby giving her said "hand"), and probably rather quickly instead of waiting a bit (thereby giving the situation a whiff of desperation, and her even more "hand") and allowing yourself to get set up for the ambiguity. Especially if there are freebies (dinner, someone to listen to her pour out her troubles, etc.) in it for her. And for her, she is content to leave the relationship right where it is, knowing you are accessible, kind of like a "dick under glass, break in case of emergency" thing, which it would appear she has yet to do. But she knows you are there for her, at her disposal.

Since much of this seems specifically directed at me, let me clarify. Nope, I didn't call her right back. I ignored her text message for a day or so until she sent me another one and then briefly replied. I waited another week before giving her a call. You're right; contacting right away would come off as desperate (and increase the possibility of saying something rash). When we spoke, I did call her out on the impersonal nature of the text message, and she was genuinely apologetic.

This whole second phase started, in fact, after I subsequently dropped contact for a couple of weeks, and she then suggested the idea of dinner to me. There has been an increase in personal contact since then, which seems like a positive sign. It's also possible that it's an elaborate ruse to string me along, but I don't think she's that type. There have been times in the past when I thought she was giving excuses for being unavailable on a particular day and the like, but they have subsequently turned out to be legitimate. So, she comes off as fairly genuine and straightforward, so she's earned more latitude from me.

As for this, when I make a commitment to anyone, I generally keep it. I have my life in enough order that I make a point of not flaking out on people (and dislike it when people are flaky to me). So, engaging in this ruse is not something I'd be inclined to do.

No.

And, finally, (5) tell it like it is. Are you genuinely interested in being her friend? Do you genuinely find those long conversations interesting? Does she allow give-and-take and equal time in the conversation, or is always about her? Does she blather on about her lovelife? Are you just putting up with the time investment with her, hoping it one day pans out into something more substantial than kissing? Don't you have more useful things to do with your time than listen to an endless litany of her problems?

Conversation is balanced and wide-ranging.

Speaking generally again, the key issue, I think, is balancing aloofness with attention. Women (and men) like attention, so there is something to be said for the whole "pursuit" game. Be a little too attentive, though, and it comes off as needy--or worse yet, creepy.

OK, I will give her kudos for being genuinely apologetic, and it sounds like you played the waiting game better than the original post indicated. And you called her out on the break-up-by-text-message deal. So far, so good.

And even better that you dropped all contact for a few weeks, which gave her a little time to think about it, and the fact that she initiated the reconnection is encouraging. OK, that will give her a little lattitude on your part.

But what has she done since then? Dinners and drinks on you, a little making-out to keep you in the game? It is good that the conversation is balanced and wide-ranging...but does she go on about her love life? Does she ask about yours? As a true friend should?

It's commendable that you dislike breaking a commitment as a ruse to test her. I give you good credit for dependability, my friend; a trait that will hold you in good stead with women one day. I once found the ruse distasteful as well, dishonest, and not a good way to participate in any relationship with another human being. But sadly sometimes it may be the only way to test out how she feels, how dedicated she will be to getting together with you. It is all well and good that she has reasonable excuses for having to cancel, but do you have any way to verify that these excuses are the real deal?

Dude! Why not, on the Trek BBSer? At least you know you'll have something in common right from the get-go. Mrs. SicOne is not a fan, but has a nodding acquaintance with things Trek over the past two decades in my august company. Though in all fairness I did date a pretty (not gorgeous, but pretty) Trek fan for two weeks until she drove me bonkers...but the times we talked about Trek were fun. Oh, and the sex. Yeah. Gettin' a little chubb just thinking about those days.

Ahem. I digress. Anyway, that's all I got for now.

 

[SicOne]

Oh, if we're just friends then you pay for your own God damn meal.

What Sidious said.

 

[sidious618]

Oh, if we're just friends then you pay for your own God damn meal.

What Sidious said.

That's always a good position to take.

 

[SicOne]

Oh, if we're just friends then you pay for your own God damn meal.

What Sidious said.

That's always a good position to take.

Speaking of positions, if the missus knew what shameful advice I was dispensing, my new position would probably be on the couch for a few months...

 

[Tim]

...but does she go on about her love life? Does she ask about yours?

No and no. If she did, that would be a certain warning signal.

IIt is all well and good that she has reasonable excuses for having to cancel, but do you have any way to verify that these excuses are the real deal?

She gives enough specifics that I doubt that she's making it up on the fly and for some things, it's possible to check general details via Google. Sure, it could all be a very elaborate ruse with false stories and whatnot, but she's not an international spy, so I doubt it. I take her at her word.

As for ruses and games, I don't play games with other people and am not about to start. If that puts me at some sort of disadvantage, then so be it.

Dude! Why not, on the Trek BBSer?

I have my reasons.


Thanks for the continued input; it's nice to have an external perspective, but we needn't make this thread about me.

Ultimately, I need to cut through the ambiguity and wringing my hands about it online won't fix that. I'll do that by observing what she does and formulating an appropriate response.

 

[SicOne]

...but does she go on about her love life? Does she ask about yours?

No and no. If she did, that would be a certain warning signal.

IIt is all well and good that she has reasonable excuses for having to cancel, but do you have any way to verify that these excuses are the real deal?

She gives enough specifics that I doubt that she's making it up on the fly and for some things, it's possible to check general details via Google. Sure, it could all be a very elaborate ruse with false stories and whatnot, but she's not an international spy, so I doubt it. I take her at her word.

As for ruses and games, I don't play games with other people and am not about to start. If that puts me at some sort of disadvantage, then so be it.

Dude! Why not, on the Trek BBSer?

I have my reasons.


Thanks for the continued input; it's nice to have an external perspective, but we needn't make this thread about me.

Ultimately, I need to cut through the ambiguity and wringing my hands about it online won't fix that. I'll do that by observing what she does and formulating an appropriate response.

Gotcha. I hope I've been able to help.

I am in the process of soliciting a little more feminine advice for this thread, so it's not too one-sided, so we'll see what transpires. Stay tuned!

 

[sidious618]

I actually have a quick question myself. Earlier I posted this:

Here's a perfect example. I've been getting to know this girl and I got her number today and we both said we'd like to get together soon. I told her I'd call this weekend.

I WON'T be calling Saturday morning. I'll be waiting to Sunday afternoon so I won't seem desperate. Silly? Yes, but that's how the game is played at the moment.

Normally I know how to roll with that stuff. However, Sunday is mother's day. I don't want to be intrusive. Should I call Saturday night instead? It's not like I'm calling Friday night or Saturday morning. I'm curious to hear opinions on this.

 

[shrantastic]

Call or text Saturday evening to make plans for Sunday. Personally I like to make plans a little bit in advance, and it shows consideration on your part too.

 

[SicOne]

I actually have a quick question myself. Earlier I posted this:

Here's a perfect example. I've been getting to know this girl and I got her number today and we both said we'd like to get together soon. I told her I'd call this weekend.

I WON'T be calling Saturday morning. I'll be waiting to Sunday afternoon so I won't seem desperate. Silly? Yes, but that's how the game is played at the moment.

Normally I know how to roll with that stuff. However, Sunday is mother's day. I don't want to be intrusive. Should I call Saturday night instead? It's not like I'm calling Friday night or Saturday morning. I'm curious to hear
opinions on this.

Shrantastic has wonderful advice, Sidious.

 

[sidious618]

Ah, but should I offer a Sunday get together because it is Mother's Day and we're both college students who still live at home?

 

[shrantastic]

Ah, but should I offer a Sunday get together because it is Mother's Day and we're both college students who still live at home?

Why not? Just say "Hey, if you aren't doing anything for Mother's Day, would you like to get together for brunch/movie/throwing rocks in the creek?"

 

[sidious618]

That's a good idea. I think I'll be suggesting the large park near us. It's really nice this time of year.

 

[SicOne]

That's a good idea. I think I'll be suggesting the large park near us. It's really nice this time of year.

Did you offer the get-together? Did she (will she) take you up on that? Let us know how it goes.

 

[sidious618]

I gave her a call but she hasn't called back yet. Hopefully sometime today. Is there any rhyme or reason as to how long a person will wait to call back? Most of my relationships came out of friendships so this is rather different to me.

 

[barnaclelapse]

In the immortal words of Bob Dylan: "I stopped trying to figure everything out a long time ago."

That pretty much sums up my experiences with dating/relationships. It's also a pretty good cop-out taken after years of failure and the kind of humiliation that usually fuels a brilliant stand-up comedian.

In other words, I don't do well with women, and there's a number of boring, depressing reasons behind that.