Spoilers Dark PhoeniX - Review and Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by OCD Geek, Jun 5, 2019.

?

Your Grade?

  1. A+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. A-

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. B+

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  5. B

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%
  6. B-

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  7. C+

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  8. C

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  9. C-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. D+

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  13. F

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  14. Why, God? Why?!

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  15. Holy shit! Kinberg stuck the landing!!!

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

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    Not sure about The Gifted, but Legion showrunner Noah Hawley has repeatedly stated that he intends Legion to be in the movie universe. He chalks up any discrepancies to the show having an extremely unreliable narrator for a main character.

    As a matter of fact, he intended for Patrick Stewart to guest star, and Stewart was very vocal that he wanted to do it. Unfortunately, Fox executives shot this down.
     
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  2. Masiral

    Masiral Captain Captain

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    As someone who's actually seen the movie - I thought it was really good. Was it the X-Men equivalent of Avengers: Endgame? No. Was it ever going to be? No. But apparently, these days everything is either the best thing ever or an absolute abomination.

    I enjoyed the entire film. There was never a point where I checked my watch or felt like I could safely duck out to the restroom (which I did for Endgame). I was actually surprised at how short it was - I wanted more.

    Not just bullshit - sexist bullshit.

    Yes, the 4-time Oscar nominated actress is not "professional" but her male co-star is. I agree that Lawrence was checked out of Apocalypse, but she was definitely invested here, which made her death scene all the more moving. And she probably got the best line of the movie.
     
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  3. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    It was OK. For all the talk of Jennifer Lawrence phoning it in Jessica Chastain was a non-entity though she had a thankless role (and Ato Essandoh, emotionless enemies? boring.). Tye Sheridan is just not right for Cyclops either and he has no chemistry with Sophie Turner IMO. His delivery of the one allowed PG-13 F-Bomb was... not good. I thought everyone else was fine including JL.

    I'm not really sure how to judge it because I am getting a bit burned out on the comic spectacle blockbusters so I'm a bit biased against it but I didn't think it was any worse than most of its ilk. I think the character's later change of heart could have been done better. I was glad to see it to finish off the cycle and am really curious what New Mutants will do since it's going a little off the straight-and-narrow.
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The thing that bugs me about this is mainly the fact that none of the non-mutants seem to actually believe mutants exist. Everybody seems to be keeping the whole thing a secret, but I would think if it was in the movie universe all of the mutant related stuff would be a lot more out in the open.
    Division 3 hunting down mutants also seems like to big of deal for the X-Men not to have become involved at some point, but I'm about 1/2 through Season 1 and so far there has been no mention of any mutants outside of Summerland, and the one guy working for D3.
     
  5. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    I believe so. They both have the same producers (Singer, Kinberg and Shuler-Donner) as the movies do. Legion is further away from the films. Because of how standalone the tale is. Gifted references the X-Men, Brotherhood, Trask Industries, and the Sentinels. So, Gifted is closer to the films by proxy of being set after X3 and the Wolverine but before DOFP.

    Both shows do seem to be occurring at the present time, in-universe. Gifted was on Fox and Legion is on FX. Both channels were owned by Fox, but now are owned by Disney.

    Legion is making the numbers with the ratings. So, it returns for it's 3rd season later this month. Despite the Fox/Disney buyout deal. Gifted's second season dropped in ratings. So it was cancelled. But then again, Fox has been notorious for bringing the axe down on most shows anyway.

    The Gifted is mum about the exact details of when the general public learned about mutants. If we go by the films, we have X3. With Magneto's massive and public assault on Worthington Industries to destroy the Leech and The Cure. We'd also have the public display of the X-Men standing in defense and alongside humanity.

    The disaster event Gifted keeps referencing in the show is 7/15 (2013). This is after X3 (2007 in the movies) and around the same time Logan was in Japan (The Wolverine).

    By then, mutants would be a public thing. Right on time for the civil rights, fear and paranoia to take hold.
     
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  6. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Von Struckers are talked about in old newspaper articles.

    Legion's plot is so disconnected from anything going on in the movieverse that it becomes kind of a distinction without a difference.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  7. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So Raven gets killed by... a fence? Doesn't she have some kind of limited regenerative capability as demonstrated in the original batch of films? I mean, Logan impaled her with his claws and she got better. The damage this time was more severe, I guess. But Logan was killed by a tree stump, so what do I know? It seems you gotta keep these mutants away from pointed sticks!

    I may have seen it in the trailer and knew it was coming, but I don't buy Jean taking down Peter any more than I bought Apocalypse taking down Peter. She just waves her hand... but the point is, wouldn't he be there before she even really started? I don't think this film utilized Quicksilver well in general, though Jean provides a convenient excuse for him not to be there to run rings around the aliens. I had actually expected another sequence set to music and was trying to guess what 90s song they were gonna use.

    DAZZLER!

    The guy who attacks with his braids was ridiculous and felt like it belonged in a cartoon.

    Some scenes made me wonder if I should have seen it in 3D. Some of the music was pretty great, but the theme from the other films was missed.

    Sheridan is still wrong for Cyclops.

    I don't know why all the aliens had to look like people, was it just to save money on special effects? I don't think I ever got a clear look at one of the aliens in their natural form, which is odd.

    And yeah, it looks at first glance as if the ending breaks continuity with DOFP. But Charles could always come back... and in keeping with the comic books, Jean could get resurrected somehow. It seems significant that we briefly see the Phoenix at the end, especially in light of the TWOK Genesis vibe given off by Vuk's description of the Phoenix Force's potential. And of course X2 ended the same way.
     
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  8. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I guess the DOFP coda is in 2023, and this is 1992, so there's still 31 years of X-adventures between the two. So anything could happen, but still it's not like we're ever gonna see them now. Like all the continuity issues between movies in the franchise (ie. even in a new body why does Xavier still need a wheelchair, how did Logan get his metal claws back- "Magneto? shrug" is the most common explanation) the answer from the powers that be of these movies will be "we don't know"
     
  9. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the issue they have with JLaw is more with the character, Mystique playing for the X Men. They feel that her time should be used more for someone who is actually supposed to be a x men.
     
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  10. John Clark

    John Clark Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just back from seeing it and while I had some minor issues (Jessica Chastain was wasted as was Ato Essandoh), I enjoyed it quite a lot.

    I'll almost certainly be getting it the week it comes out on blu.
     
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  11. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe Deadpool's time travel hijinx really f'ed up the XCU
     
  12. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know if they've been in the other movies before, I don't remember them, but I did find it amusing when the mutants were captured by the MCU troops.
     
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  13. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Despite the repeated delays, the months of bad press, and the early poor reviews, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I really enjoyed Dark Phoenix. It's leaps and bounds better than Apocalypse (a low bar, I know) and is a far better take on the story than The Last Stand (also damning with faint praise), but it is a genuinely good film and a solid conclusion for the X-Men series.

    I loved the nuanced take on Jean's story, ranging from her father's fear of her because she put her mother to sleep and accidentally caused the car crash that took her life, to Charles' misguided attempts to "protect" her from those early memories. Aside from Scott (and possibly Hank), people either tried to manipulate her (Charles, Vuk), cast her aside (her father, Erik), or simply shrink away in fear (everyone else), when what she really needed was someone to actually care about what she needed and allow her to have her own autonomy. As a result, Jean's anger was righteous and her outbursts of violence were understandable, if not justifiable.

    I particularly liked how Jean's powers were more clearly defined in this film than just shiny lights and making people disintegrate like we saw in The Last Stand (although that did happen during the climax). Instead, Jean's abilities included seeing Quicksilver in fast mode (and react accordingly), deflecting Storm's lightning bolt, and matching Erik's magnetic control. While it's a shame the climax reduced her power to shiny lights and disintegration, it was refreshing to see a broader set of power during the bulk of the film.

    The film isn't without its flaws, of course, such as some clunky dialogue (but then all of the X-Men films have had some clunky dialogue...); Jessica Chastain's Vuk was thinly written, but to Chastain's credit, she did the absolute best with what little was given to work with; and while I liked the idea of Hank breaking away from Charles after Raven's death and seeking aid from Erik, I wasn't entirely convinced by the break itself, not because of Nicholas Hoult (who acted his heart out during her death and afterwards), but rather it felt like the break skipped a few steps before getting there. I'm not sure what needed to happen but something definitely felt missing.

    Suffice to say, I almost feel like we could just ignore Apocalypse (this film largely did) and pretend there's a solid trilogy here. While it would take more squinting, I want to even ignore most of the ridiculous decade jumps (Nixon and Vietnam War in Day of Future Past are unavoidable), especially considering that other than the year cards, there wasn't that much that really grounded Dark Phoenix to a particular time setting (hell, they even used a fictional president finally).
     
  14. TV's Frank

    TV's Frank Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, for what's it's worth, I enjoyed it. It's a bit more serious-minded the last few installments, which had a healthy dose of humor mixed with the drama, but I was still engaged through Dark Phoenix. It's more of a muted ending for the series, than one that's celebratory. Maybe it's because I'm really sold on these characters and the actors who play them, but I am happy to have seen them onscreen in this fashion one last time. It was strange at first to have it all backed by a Zimmer score, but I warmed to it fairly quickly and will check out the album ASAP.
     
  15. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought that was just an expression of her TK.
     
  16. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Yeah, you're probably right. I guess what I mean is she matched his level of magnetic control with her telekinesis, which is impressive unto itself.
     
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  17. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    Very good to hear. That is close to my feelings on it too.

    This is the only film were the time passage and time period had no meaning. It could have easily been 2 or 3 years after Apocalypse or early 80s if someone wants to ignore that completely.

    Mystique defying age makes sense due to her powers. Xavier being bald ages him and fits his iconic future visual look. Why no effort was made to age Magneto baffles me? Graying his gray a bit would have done the trick. Wonder if that was Michael Fassbender’s own doing?

    I suspect once people actually see the film, even if later on video or streaming, Most are going to have regretted not seeing in theaters.

    I think it’s a false assumption to think Marvel is going to fast track X-men movies. They have a lot on their plate to keep them busy already.
     
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  18. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This would be the third (at least) fictional POTUS for the X-Men movies so far, no?

    Why regret? I often skip movies at the cinema even though I check 'em out immediately on home release. And it's not like poor box office will matter with this one. The series is as done and dusted as it can be.
     
  19. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Yes, but I meant for the McAvoy/Fassbender/Lawrence films. Nixon was an actual character, JFK was referred to, and Reagan was seen in related footage.
     
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  20. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    I guess I am old fashioned, I love seeing movies in a theater on a big screen. Certainly big Sci Fi and action films. I have a decent tv but nothing spectacular . I do not have many expense hobbies so seeing new releases is still a big deal and I will spend the money to see this again in a theater.
     
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