Jaylah could always take her cadet cruise on the Enterprise (like Kirk Prime apparently did on the Republic).
Danai Gurira to join Star Trek 4(?)
- Thread starter Rahul
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Yeah. Midshipman Peter Preston didn't look very old when he was on Enterprise, and midshipman is basically a cadet role.
Why shouldn't it? There's no ongoing story arc. They can set the next episode whenever they want to.
Academy lasts 4 years, unless the movie is that many years later in a new five years mission, they'd have to explain why she's aboard the flag ship already.
As for closure, I merely meant her arc in the movie probably makes her the character, in the movie, who got the most closure if beyond were to be the last movie. She finally left the planet, she found a purpose in starfleet and she's now probably making friends and just experiencing what the other characters had experienced at the academy. She got a happy end with hope and that gives us, regardless if we see her asap, an idea of what she will do. Closure in her case means her character accomplished the purpose they wanted in that movie and also what she represented in the movie.
That's the issue for me. His whole arc continues to be about daddy issues, even after beyond should've resolved that and make him finally move on.
Spock too might be a victim of a similar redundancy and going forward in one movie, then going backwards again on the next one overwriting all progress made by the other. For instance, the loss of vulcan still hurts for sure but he can't have survivor guilt over and over and still deal with issues he had resolved in the previous movies.
Ultimately, the characters should be allowed to make real progress..and there are different challenges for them to explore than the same over and over. .
To be honest, also, bringing George Kirk back might devalue his hero moment a bit and the full impact of his sacrifice, and thus the fact the narrative can't delete his death, or the destruction of vulcan, or Amanda or Pike's death. Their loss and the pain of the characters who lost them matter so much because they are permanent things that will forever affect their life.
In general, I don't like time travel and the whole undoing things done by the other movies.
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In the universe where Kirk when from bar fighting to Enterprise captain in 3 years?
hopefully they set it several years after star trek beyond, or the shortened passage of time of the films versus the passage of time in reality is gonna get weird. i mean, if they set star trek 4 any less than a year after beyond, quinto would be playing spock a full decade younger than the actor actually is.
listen, starfleet is desperate for personnel in the kelvin timeline to staff up all those "ridiculously" large starships, so the academy gets em in and out real quick.
full circle.
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He hasn't in any way dealt with those issues though. Not to mention, I think it's realistic in this case. Going off what we saw in the deleted scenes, Kirk was an abused kid by his Stepfather. I imagine he was angry as a child at his real father for choosing to stay on the ship because he didn't understand that choice, which was made clear by his comment to Pike about 'Sure showed him!' I saw STID as showing him coming to realize why a Captain would make that choice. Beyond didn't really deal with anything. They mentioned the elephant in the room during his and McCoy's conversation, but that was all. No dealing with anything really. Beyond was just a big black hole as far as character development went. But in my opinion finding yourself and dealing with that kind of childhood isn't going to be done away with in one movie. If they had tried, it would be trivializing what Kirk had been through.
I didn't see any redundancy with Spock as a character in Beyond. Not as far as his survivors guilt anyway. I saw him pained from losing Prime Spock and that temporarily making him feel lost as to where he should be. In fact when Kirk didn't want him going over to the swarm ship because of his injuries he actually stopped and thought about it and then suggested he send McCoy along if he was worried. But even if he did still have survivors guilt, that also is something you can't realistically do away with in a snap of the fingers. I guess it depends on what type of movie viewer a person is. I like to see my heroes have real life struggles and come out the better for it.
As for George Kirk, I can't really say at this point whether that would be a good thing or not. We have no details at this point. It really depends on how they approach it. I would hope they would know better than to destroy a universe they spent three movies creating so I'm not too worried about that. We'll just have to wait see.
As far as Jaylah goes, I wouldn't mind her having a part in the new movie. I don't think timelines are a huge issue at this point. Seems like we are going four years between movies in real life, never mind the movie timelines. I would also love to see Danai Gurira get a kick ass role, but hopefully they don't cover her in loads of prosthetics like they did Elba. Such a waste!
Due to Vulcan being attacked and the entire Starfleet pissing about lightyears away so that he is assigned to a ship full of weirdoes and an old man oddly interested in him. So all we need to do, is wait and attack a Federation world with an Eldritch like vessel close to Earth, and assign the fleet to one star system together, and yeah, we could have Jayla on the Enterprise.
Or just make the film take place in 2268, whichever is easier.
Pretty sure Gaila was also assigned to the Farragut. She does the whole "BFFs Forever!!" gesture when Uhura is assigned; only Uhura's not having it.
I actually disagree on both these points. Vulcan as a black hole should not exceed the total gravity of Vulcan as a planet. Anything close enough to get pulled in more violently would already be too close anyway. But Delta Vega would continue orbiting the black hole with no instability (assuming that's what it was doing before the collapse).
The movie at any rate cuts ahead in time to Spock's personal log entry after Vulcan collapses, making it entirely possible Enterprise was able to rescue any hypothetical survivors.
I would prefer the cast someone to play Riley, personally. On the subject of who (if anyone) should replace Chekov.
Otherwise, I prefer M'Ress, Alex or even Ilia to someone as obvious as Saavik (at least I assume she'd be more obvious because we've already gotten a Khan movie).
Jaylah is fine too. It would seem a stretch, if much of the Kelvinverse wasn't already.
I'm the biggest fan of the Kelvin movies on this board and even I know their version of black holes are magic that work however they want them to. For absolute starters, real black holes are not 2-dimensional portals to other times and places.
Admittedly, I'm biased about this point anyway because I'm not interested about a movie that is, once again, focused on Kirk.
There are a million of plots I can think about and what they could do with this cast, and tailoring a movie on the idea we gotta bring his dad back because the actor is famous now is, well, just a waste for me.
I already thought, honestly, that into darkness was a waste because of that and because it focused too much on kirk. I felt the priority for continuity sake should've been dealing with the aftermath of the destruction of vulcan that was a bigger and most impactful plot they had , but instead Spock got kind of sidelined to focus on Kirk and his daddy issues and as a result, 3 years later (beyond) Spock suddenly remembers he's a survivor and may need to help the vulcans after that part had been already, more or less, resolved in ID and the last scene of ST09 where Spock Prime urges him to remain in starfleet.
In ID, I couldn't help but feel like Kirk's issues as a new captain were just of lesser importance in that moment than Spock, the vulcans and the federation itself having to deal with a fairly recent tragedy such as the complete destruction of a whole planet. His issues didn't deserve, in that moment, to be the primary focus right after a movie like ST09 where something so devastating had happened.
To this day, one of the things that make me feel unable to truly connect to the k/S friendship the movie preaches about IS precisely the aspect that I never saw Kirk acting as a friend to Spock, in a way. I never saw him asking Spock if he was Ok after what happened to vulcan, I never saw him wondering if he had ptsd. Only Uhura seems to even notice that Spock may have a death wish.
Kirk was only focused on Spock not getting they were friends, but aside from saving him he didn't really give the man any reason to believe they were friends. . I just can't agree with the notion that Spock was being the one 'dense' because he's alien. I honestly would probably perceive things the same way if I were in his place.
Basically, it's like we never got a real sequel of ST09. And in the end, both kirk and spock keep getting dragged into having to deal with the same conflict.
There are a million of plots I can think about and what they could do with this cast, and tailoring a movie on the idea we gotta bring his dad back because the actor is famous now is, well, just a waste for me.
I already thought, honestly, that into darkness was a waste because of that and because it focused too much on kirk. I felt the priority for continuity sake should've been dealing with the aftermath of the destruction of vulcan that was a bigger and most impactful plot they had , but instead Spock got kind of sidelined to focus on Kirk and his daddy issues and as a result, 3 years later (beyond) Spock suddenly remembers he's a survivor and may need to help the vulcans after that part had been already, more or less, resolved in ID and the last scene of ST09 where Spock Prime urges him to remain in starfleet.
In ID, I couldn't help but feel like Kirk's issues as a new captain were just of lesser importance in that moment than Spock, the vulcans and the federation itself having to deal with a fairly recent tragedy such as the complete destruction of a whole planet. His issues didn't deserve, in that moment, to be the primary focus right after a movie like ST09 where something so devastating had happened.
To this day, one of the things that make me feel unable to truly connect to the k/S friendship the movie preaches about IS precisely the aspect that I never saw Kirk acting as a friend to Spock, in a way. I never saw him asking Spock if he was Ok after what happened to vulcan, I never saw him wondering if he had ptsd. Only Uhura seems to even notice that Spock may have a death wish.
Kirk was only focused on Spock not getting they were friends, but aside from saving him he didn't really give the man any reason to believe they were friends. . I just can't agree with the notion that Spock was being the one 'dense' because he's alien. I honestly would probably perceive things the same way if I were in his place.
Basically, it's like we never got a real sequel of ST09. And in the end, both kirk and spock keep getting dragged into having to deal with the same conflict.
Not to my opinion. I saw the bigger issue in that film as dealing with his immaturity and arrogance as a baby Captain who was promoted from cadet to Captain and wasn't ready for it. But in the process he learned something about why his father would've made that choice. I don't think it ties the whole thing into a neat bow that said, 'Okay we're done ever mentioning that again.'
Err...I'm not sure what to say to that exactly. Other than that every tv series and movie franchise in the past has focused on the Captain with side characters coming into his story orbit.
I think any movie at this point will be a disappoint if that is what you're looking for. They aren't going to pay a Cast of Quinto and Pine tons of Money to play side characters.
Err...I'm not sure what to say to that exactly. Other than that every tv series and movie franchise in the past has focused on the Captain with side characters coming into his story orbit.
Of course, I don't expect Kirk to become a side character anytime soon but, but, the reboot started with a different dynamic already (where Spock was more co-protagonist than hero's sidekick) and perhaps, perhaps, this trek doesn't necessarily have to continue the one hero show formula..especially when looking at other successful franchises that have a far more balanced ensemble and are less stuck on this idea everything must revolve around the main guy, even when they still have one.
People complained about Discovery too because the main character isn't the captain. .but it just reinforces the fact that things don't have to be the same in perpetuity just because it was like that back in the old days. Using that logic, there is no evolution. What's even the point of having a reboot if you don't use it to also explore and further develop aspects and characters that weren't developed enough or not at all in the original? It's a wasted opportunity for the sake of always doing the same things with the same few.
And I don't want to derail the point further, but just because I don't get excited by the Kirk's show or his daddy issues at this point, and I believe the insistence that he must eat most of the screentime is detrimental to the big opportunity this trek has already created, it doesn't mean I don't want them to do something good with the character, nor I think he must have a marginal role and/or can't be the main guy. I see merit in further exploring his dynamics with the other characters. They could kill several birds with one stone instead of painting themselves into a corner.
I have things to say on some of these points but don't want to derail the thread further. I will say I didn't see Spock as a sidekick until Beyond. For all the Broohaha about Lin being able to do great with a movie focused on a large cast, I think he did terrible. The first two movies did a better job. But I don't want to get on that soap box
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Jaylah is NuTrek Rey, basically. Both are abandoned/marooned and forced to fend for themselves alone, though Rey's existence is slightly more civilized. They both are recruited for a group that they have no prior allegiance to.
Jaylah's strength is that she doesn't have much exposure to Human ways of speaking and thinking, aside from the music on the Franklin. So unlike Spock, who is half-Human and well acquainted with them, everything is foreign to her. She brings new perspectives to things.
I've said before that the natural next step in the arc is Kirk finding out that he himself is a father...
What if Kirk had to choose between saving the dad he never knew and the mom he grew up with (albeit with a strained relationship, no doubt)
Jaylah's strength is that she doesn't have much exposure to Human ways of speaking and thinking, aside from the music on the Franklin. So unlike Spock, who is half-Human and well acquainted with them, everything is foreign to her. She brings new perspectives to things.
I've said before that the natural next step in the arc is Kirk finding out that he himself is a father...
What if Kirk had to choose between saving the dad he never knew and the mom he grew up with (albeit with a strained relationship, no doubt)
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