Could they make the Samaritan Snare today?

[CoveTom]

When I wrote the Pakleds, I stressed that they weren't stupid, just possessed of limited verbal skills--and overly reliant on "borrowed" technology they didn't fully understand.

Didn't Data actually say something to that effect in the episode? Everyone was making the assumption that the Pakleds were none too bright, and Data points out that they may only have poorly developed language skills.

It seems to be that, if anything, the message of the episode is not to underestimate people or judge them based on outward appearances.

 

[Greg Cox]

When I wrote the Pakleds, I stressed that they weren't stupid, just possessed of limited verbal skills--and overly reliant on "borrowed" technology they didn't fully understand.

Didn't Data actually say something to that effect in the episode? Everyone was making the assumption that the Pakleds were none too bright, and Data points out that they may only have poorly developed language skills.

.

Exactly. That's where I got it from.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Isn't one of those guys Chris Latta, AKA Starscream AKA Cobra Commander?

 

[doubleohfive]

^ Yes.

I do seem to recall a humorous moment on DS9 wherein Quark referred to the Pakleds, too.

Something along the lines of ...

"It's all hidden on a moon owned by the Pakleds but those fools don't know it's there!"

...or some such.

That said, I agree with Dennis that the episode is pretty terrible. Huge leaps on logic, stupid choices by our crew, and even dumber plot twists with the whole "Picard's gotta go get his heart fixed" subplot. Yeesh.

 

[RedShirt]

It's actually a very good episode if one is starting to work in developmental disability, because that's really how it often is. They can be masterful manipulators, and there is the constant problem of staff and people babying them.

Oh yeah. As a parent to a Down Syndrome teen I can personally attest to this. We called her out on her behavior a few years ago and she flat-out admitted that she plays dumb to get special treatment. There are certain family members that we've had to restrict her exposure to because they are powerful enablers of this behavior and refuse to change because she's such a "poor little thing."
Luckily once we learned to see through her games (and coincidentally lucked in to finally getting her a teacher who doesn't take that kind of shit from the kids in class) we were able to start teaching her new skills and giving her more responsibilities (i.e. chores... oh the poor little thing, lol).
She may never be independent, but she'll never be helpless.

So the content of the episode isn't off. I think the stylistic choice for the Pakleds was less than creative, and more cliche. Of course they have to be humpty-dumpty bumpkins. Fat and stupid. They're not making the audience think very hard with that image, and it is a negative stereotype after all. It is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the Pakleds get one over on the crew.
I'm not sure. I'm on the fence with this one. Star Trek at its best will take a cliche negative stereotype, and turn it on its head. And that wouldn't have worked if they had made the Pakleds look like insects or something.

That's pretty much how I see it. The staff wanted to make a "Don't judge a book by its cover" story, used Down Syndrome people as a rough template that most of the viewing audience might understand at an intuitive level even if they've never directly encountered folks with Down's, and then turned it all on its ear by having our crew (who we're usually supposed to sympathize with) be all uppity & arrogant & judgemntal about this race and their capabilities.
The episode is in no way a masterpiece, but I understand what they were going for.

You know... if you replace "we need things to make us go" with "I need a peanut butter and jelly for lunch," the episode almost parallels the situation I walked into when I joined this family years ago... minus the repeated phaser stuns, of course.

 

[Anji]

The episode is quite innovative. Think about it. Most of the races we've seen are either more intelligent or on the same intelligence level as the main characters. In "Snare", you're dealing with a group that thinks in an entirely different and slower fashion. It poses an interesting challenge.

Some people just process information slower than others, it doesn't mean they have a disability.

I have never interpreted that episode to be referring to people with Down's Syndrome.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's not the logic of what the Pakleds do that makes the story stupid; it's the story logic itself. The crew of the Enterprise function on the level of morons in this episode.

 

[CoveTom]

^ How so? They underestimate the Pakleds because of their perception that the Pakleds are none too bright. That, however, strikes me as the typical human failing of "judging a book by its cover." Nothing much out of the ordinary there. Beyond that, what does the crew do to look incompetent?

 

[Greg Cox]

^ How so? They underestimate the Pakleds because of their perception that the Pakleds are none too bright. That, however, strikes me as the typical human failing of "judging a book by its cover." Nothing much out of the ordinary there. Beyond that, what does the crew do to look incompetent?

Well, it's not exactly Riker's finest hour. He sends Geordi over to an unknown alien vessel, without any security or backup. Then, even after Troi senses that Geordi is in "terrible danger," he stands around on the bridge for several minutes without taking any action except to check in on Geordi to make sure he's okay.

Surprise! The Pakleds take Geordi hostage . . . .

 

[Amaris]

When I wrote the Pakleds, I stressed that they weren't stupid, just possessed of limited verbal skills--and overly reliant on "borrowed" technology they didn't fully understand.

It never occurred to me to write them as mentally-challenged.

I never thought they would be considered mentally challenged anyway. They always seemed to be exactly how they were described; that being a race of people who tried to move beyond their current evolutionary boundaries for personal gain. They weren't stupid, they just lacked the necessary skills to build their own technology, and so they stole it from others.

It would be like me stealing technology from a team of nuclear physicists and making them build it for me. It doesn't mean I'm stupid, I just don't understand the mechanics behind the technology, so I force others to do it for me. That never implied down syndrome or stupidity at all. In fact, it's quite clear that they're rather crafty and sneaky.

 

[Greg Cox]

If you'll indulge me one more shameless plug, I can't help pointing out that STAR TREK: SEVEN DEADLY SINS, featuring a 20,000 word story about the Pakleds goes on sale today.

And, yeah, I pretty much wrote them like Axiom just described. They're not stupid. They just rely too much on "borrowed" tech they don't fully understand.

 

[CoveTom]

Ya know, it's kinda weird engaging in a forum conversation with someone who appears in a special feature of one of the DVD's I own.

But I agree with Axiom and Greg. I don't see the Pakleds as being mentally challenged in any way. Mentally challenged would seem to imply that the Pakleds we see are somehow different from what is the 'norm' for their race. I don't think that's the case at all. I think that's the level of development their species is at.

Also, I really don't think they're stupid. I think they're lacking in technical ability and understanding. They probably should not even be a space-faring species at that point, but they've stolen the technology from others. And they have, as Data said, poorly developed language skills. They don't know enough about Federation technology to know that the "crimson forcefield" is a bluff, and a corny sounding one at that.

But that doesn't make them stupid either. I couldn't build a weapon of the sophistication of a phaser or photon torpedo either. That doesn't make me stupid. But humanity has not reached that level of technical sophistication yet.

 

[Amaris]

If you'll indulge me one more shameless plug, I can't help pointing out that STAR TREK: SEVEN DEADLY SINS, featuring a 20,000 word story about the Pakleds goes on sale today.

And, yeah, I pretty much wrote them like Axiom just described. They're not stupid. They just rely too much on "borrowed" tech they don't fully understand.

Well, that works out just fine on many levels!
That being said, I'll check out the book.

 

[TheQman]

I liked the episode. Of course as with most of TNG, I have just seen it too much now.

I think it is getting to a point where everything is a PC problem, people just need to lighten up. But it was kind of 'un-trek-like' for the crew to make fun of them, but I was personally not offended by it.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^ How so? They underestimate the Pakleds because of their perception that the Pakleds are none too bright. That, however, strikes me as the typical human failing of "judging a book by its cover." Nothing much out of the ordinary there. Beyond that, what does the crew do to look incompetent?

Well, it's not exactly Riker's finest hour. He sends Geordi over to an unknown alien vessel, without any security or backup. Then, even after Troi senses that Geordi is in "terrible danger," he stands around on the bridge for several minutes without taking any action except to check in on Geordi to make sure he's okay.

Surprise! The Pakleds take Geordi hostage . . . .

That sums up a good part of it, yes - let us note that the writer for some reason even has Worf ask "do we have to send them our chief engineer?" and no one answers him.

Add in a lot of arbitrary plot points - such as that for some reason Picard has to be sent to a certain place to have surgery, but when the surgery (described repeatedly as "entirely routine") goes wrong without hint of explanation it turns out that there is no one at this hospital qualified to handle the emergency and the only answer is to call the Enterprise.

The writer even seemed to recognize how arbitrary the story set-up itself was - he hangs a lantern on it by having Wesley ask "why would anyone install a defective implant?" - another question that just hangs in the air while everyone metaphorically looks at their shoes.

Someone's going to say "but stuff like that really happens," the answer to which is: tough, you're still not allowed to do that in a story unless you're willing to be called out. A basic rule of plotting fiction is "just because something happens in real life is not an excuse."

The script is dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb. This has always annoyed me far more than anything to do with the Pakleds themselves.

 

[John200]

I think they were smart enough to outsmart the Enterprise crew.