Could ENT's Xindi inhabit the TOS Universe?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Wingsley, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    Is there any way to explore how to shoe-horn the Xindi into the TOS historical continuity? Would the Xindi be part of the TOS Federation, or have diplomatic relations with it, or would they be reclusive like the Talosians?
     
  2. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is one of the many places Enterprise jumped the shark. Rule number one: if you're making a prequel, never have it directly contradict the thing to which it's a prequel! Dumb dumb. It's one of the many reasons I didn't watch the show (that, and over a decade of TV Trek fatigue).
     
  3. drt

    drt Commodore Commodore

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    They were conquered by the Romulans and their former territory lies within the Star Empire.
     
  4. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, any of those work. It really doesn't take any shoe-horning. It's more like finding an empty spot on a warehouse floor the size of a football field that has eight dozen poker chips scattered over it to fit the Xindi into the Original Series continuity.
     
  5. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I would rather not shoe-horn the Xindi, or any other concept that didn't exist at the time TOS was produced, into the context of TOS.

    Kor
     
  6. Lt. Tyler

    Lt. Tyler Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes my thoughts exactly. ENT simply cannot exist in the same universe as the TOS for many many reasons.
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf In the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    Whats the contradiction? To my knowledge the Enterprise Era (the 2150s) was never mentioned in TOS.
     
  8. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dumb is subtitle of many of the Berman years shows. That, or just call them Star Trek: Unwatchable.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Former Democrat Premium Member

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    This.

    I thought Enterprise did as well as reasonably expected in regards to fitting in with TOS, from a story perspective.
     
  10. section31agent

    section31agent Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The 23rd Century Xindi may not necessarily be reclusive, they just don't have any disputes with the Federation at the time. We've never seen a Tholian, Gorn or Tzenkethi warship in TNG/DS9 either even though they have all come into conflict with the Federation at some point in their history.

    The Romulans went into two periods of "isolation" where they avoided Federation contact for decades but they were busy conquering the rest of the galaxy

    If the Xindi are neither threatening the Federation nor interested in some kind of diplomatic relationship, Starfleet doesn't really have reason to go back to Xindi space or vice versa
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  12. Drone

    Drone Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Agree. They retrenched and were concerned with the task of restoring a workable and integrated relationship among the species. This could have been a endeavor that took many years to realize, during which time they were just part of the galactic background. With no reason for continued enmity with Earth and the Sphere Builders out of the picture, it could very well happen that they became a member of the Federation that we just never saw, certainly a not uncommon reality in the series. They could have been approached by another Starfleet mission contemporaneously, an event simply not mentioned in the TOS recorded narrative. The point could be made that such an existential threat in the past would likely have been mentioned at some point, but I don't think one can accurately claim that all the events that may have played an integral role in the history of Earth, Starfleet, or the Federation were necessarily ever referenced. Simply, this proposition doesn't seem implausible to accept save if one holds a deep animus towards Enterprise. :techman:
     
  13. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    OK, on further thought I rescind my objection. The Germans, Italians, and Japanese did some serious $H!t in WWII, but no one has brought that up in the last 40-50+ years of diplomatic dealings. I'll submit that the Xindi infractions of the 22nd century (and their galactic relevance as an adversary) were hardly a blip on the radar of the 23rd century.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It might be noted that the Xindi coincide spatially with the Delphic Expanse, and ENT directly establishes that the Expanse just plain went away with the events described.

    With no further danger of being turned inside out or transformed into sperm whales and potted plants, all sorts of adventurers, exploiters and cultures would now enter the Xindi space, and probably make short work of their ENT era "status"; they'd be politically unrecognizable by the time of TOS.

    As for whether they would fit in with TOS... That show was able to fit in things like the Klingon and Romulan Empires with nary a mention for the first season or so. It's difficult to imagine what could not fit in there. Earth being ruled by a mad king and painted purple? Never contradicted in any way, as we saw nothing of the future Earth. TOS just refrained from exposition unless absolutely necessary - half a phrase in a Captain's Log would establish millennia of history or a bloody war or a crucial resource around which the entire UFP economy rotates.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure the Xindi were out there somewhere in the TOS universe, just like all the snazzy TAS, TMP, STIV and ST'09 aliens were - they're always just off-camera or belowdecks in the classic show.
     
  16. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The European and Pacific theaters were like two separate wars happening simultaneously, and on the Pacific front it was really a continuation of armed conflict that started well before Germany invaded Poland.

    East Asian countries still bring up Japanese atrocities pretty frequently. Issues such as comfort women, the rape of Nanking, war criminals being honored at Yasukuni Shrine, and Japan re-interpreting the "no war" clause of its constitution, are very much in the public awareness seventy years after it all ended. Probably every Japanese Prime Minister has made some public speech expressing "regret" over the war years, even though they had nothing to do with them (while those in other Asian countries level the criticism that "regret" is not an adequate apology).

    Kor
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  17. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe our friend Greg Cox could someday write a TOS novel addressing this question.

    Disclaimer: This is NOT a story idea, and I have no designs on it. I hated that whole Xindi season anyway.

    On the other hand, Greg, if you read this and decide to do it, buy me a cookie, and we'll call it even.:bolian:
     
  18. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why couldn't they be?

    In TOS's 79 episodes we were mainly focused one crew of one ship in a vast Starfleet part on a very large starfaring culture. Perhaps there were other crews on other ships in other places we did not see in one of those 79 episodes that had dealings with the Xindi during that period. Surely what we saw in TOS was not the ONLY thing happening in Federation space during that period of history.
     
  19. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This exactly. MUCH of Enterprise works in the TOS universe to me.

    Besides, we all know the timeline was changed as soon as the Borg entered the 21st century and were later revived in Archer's era. :techman: SO TOS probably didn't unfold the same way. Enter Chris Pine as Kirk.

    (Ducks)
     
  20. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    TOS had plenty of its own inconsistencies, and some TOS aliens were never seen in the TNG era for one reason or another without any complaints.

    So it's not really hard to put the Xindi into TOS.