She had very good dramatic roles (IMO) in Don't Bother to Knock, Bus Stop and Misfits.
Could Bogey make it today?
- Thread starter Warped9
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Eddie Murphy appears to be a case study in the dangers of vanity when it comes to comedy. Somewhere around THE GOLDEN CHILD he seems to have gone from being a hungry young comic, always game for a laugh, to trying to reinvent himself as a suave, romantic leading man who couldn't be bothered to play the clown anymore.
I remember a review pointing out how weird it was that they actually had to give him a funny sidekick in VAMPIRE IN BROOKLYN. Since when did you need somebody else to provide the comedy relief in an Eddie Murphy movie?
It wasn't until he finally put his vanity aside and put on a fat suit in THE NUTTY PROFESSOR that he jump-started his career again . . . at least for awhile.
I remember a review pointing out how weird it was that they actually had to give him a funny sidekick in VAMPIRE IN BROOKLYN. Since when did you need somebody else to provide the comedy relief in an Eddie Murphy movie?
It wasn't until he finally put his vanity aside and put on a fat suit in THE NUTTY PROFESSOR that he jump-started his career again . . . at least for awhile.
Thanks for the recommendations. I've seen "Bus Stop" and "The Misfits". That reminds me, I neglected to mention another problem I have with a lot of Monroe movies is that she rarely has a male co-star who I find to be her equal (in terms of the quality of his character). For most of the movie, I found the guy courting her in "Bus Stop" to be insufferable. It made sense from a story perspective since he was supposed to be someone very naive as a man who wasn't very worldly, but it still made their 'courtship' often very frustrating to watch.
She really nailed the last scene, though, when he FINALLY came to his senses a bit and showed some maturity (I would have liked that to happen earlier, though). I think scenes like that really showed her dramatic potential. I thought "The Misfits" was kind of a mess, but again, it wasn't really her fault. It was very overwritten (understandably since it was written by a playwright in an apparent moment of excess) and all of the characters including hers were unfocused and hard to understand.
It also has some of the most sickening animal cruelty I've ever seen in a movie.
Again, Marilyn did a good job playing a more dramatic character, but it was hard to be engaged by her character or any other in that movie since the writing was so scatter shot. I will definitely check out "Don't Bother to Knock" at some point. I hope it's more tightly written than those others. In my search for the perfect Marilyn movie, what has constantly alluded me is a script that gives her a male lead who is a fully formed three-dimensional character and isn't gratingly shallow, clownish, naive, or manipulative. I heard "Niagara" fits the bill, but I've been reluctant to check out a movie where she's supposedly more of a femme fatale. I just like happy-go-lucky Marilyn too much.
They have the same long head & face shape as well.You don't see it? I see it.Hamm looks nothing like Bogart.
I don't see it. Yeah, both men are pictured wearing suits, with slicked back hair that was in style in the 40s to early 60s. Both men have dark hair. But that's about it.
We're going to have to agree to disagree.
This is a very interesting thread. And as a huge classic film fan, I'd have to say that just like with the transition from silents to sound films in the late 1920's...the transition from movies being alot more plentiful and often lower budget to fewer, but bigger budget blockbusters? I think some of the big names might not have made that transition that well. And some would have done fabulous.
Certainly the stunningly beautiful/strikingly handsome but still talented actors & actresses probably could have made it. In fact, this is evidenced by the fact that many of their films STILL hold up quite well. Cary Grant, for example, would still be just as popular - in fact, maybe more so because he was so doggone CLASSY. I also think Gary Cooper (my personal favorite actor of all time) would have done well - an extremely good looking action hero type who is as much at home on a horse in a western as in a tux in a romantic comedy? Oh...he'd be GOLD these days. As would be Gregory Peck. I also think that the class-act comedy team of William Powell and Myrna Loy would do quite well - their comedy still holds up in those Thin Man movies and others...and they were so elegant about it all.
Errol Flynn would absolutely be able to make it...assuming we are talking about the young Errol Flynn - the one that existed before alcohol pretty much destroyed him. He certainly had the looks, the stage presence, the charming personality..and a charisma that just wouldn't quit. He even had the 'celebrity lifestyle'. He could totally be an action hero today.
Bette Davis would still be a star. For the very reasons she was a star the first time. She never possessed the same stunning beauty as, say, Ava Gardner or Rita Hayworth...but Bette Davis was not just an actress...or even just a person. She was a force of nature, really. And you can't stop a force of nature. She would be a star, by sheer force of will. Just like she was the first time.
But Bogie, Cagney, and Edward G. Robinson...those are a bit trickier. Those three guys made their names in the gangster pictures of the 1930's - particularly the last two (Bogie not as much until High Sierra, and then Casablanca). And Cagney won his Oscar for a song & dance picture (Yankee Doodle Dandy) which would never be made today. Now, I think James Cagney was a brilliantly talented actor - one of my favorites. And once he got his foot in the door, he'd have done well. But getting his foot in the door might have been more difficult. And I think the same would be true for Bogie. If he got lucky and a role like Rick in a film like Casablanca came along for him...he would be immortal, just like he is today. But I think a role like Rick in a film like Casablanca would be alot harder to come by. And High Sierra, while it did lift him out from under Cagney & Robinson, would not be enough to build a career on. Not now. These days, a guy like Bogie would NEED a film like Casablanca. Because that was the film that turned Bogie from a gangster into sex symbol.
Now, one actor who I think would actually do BETTER today than he did back then is Spencer Tracy. Spencer Tracy was a superstar back then, to be sure, and an extremely talented man. But I could EASILY see Spencer Tracy playing about every big lawyer role in the movies these days. He was so matter-of-fact about everything, and I think audiences today like that even more than they did back then. In fact, I think his comedy would be better appreciated now precisely because of that matter-of-factness he had about him. I think Spencer Tracy would be HUGE. He'd be held in about the same regard as say, Tom Hanks.
Certainly the stunningly beautiful/strikingly handsome but still talented actors & actresses probably could have made it. In fact, this is evidenced by the fact that many of their films STILL hold up quite well. Cary Grant, for example, would still be just as popular - in fact, maybe more so because he was so doggone CLASSY. I also think Gary Cooper (my personal favorite actor of all time) would have done well - an extremely good looking action hero type who is as much at home on a horse in a western as in a tux in a romantic comedy? Oh...he'd be GOLD these days. As would be Gregory Peck. I also think that the class-act comedy team of William Powell and Myrna Loy would do quite well - their comedy still holds up in those Thin Man movies and others...and they were so elegant about it all.
Errol Flynn would absolutely be able to make it...assuming we are talking about the young Errol Flynn - the one that existed before alcohol pretty much destroyed him. He certainly had the looks, the stage presence, the charming personality..and a charisma that just wouldn't quit. He even had the 'celebrity lifestyle'. He could totally be an action hero today.
Bette Davis would still be a star. For the very reasons she was a star the first time. She never possessed the same stunning beauty as, say, Ava Gardner or Rita Hayworth...but Bette Davis was not just an actress...or even just a person. She was a force of nature, really. And you can't stop a force of nature. She would be a star, by sheer force of will. Just like she was the first time.
But Bogie, Cagney, and Edward G. Robinson...those are a bit trickier. Those three guys made their names in the gangster pictures of the 1930's - particularly the last two (Bogie not as much until High Sierra, and then Casablanca). And Cagney won his Oscar for a song & dance picture (Yankee Doodle Dandy) which would never be made today. Now, I think James Cagney was a brilliantly talented actor - one of my favorites. And once he got his foot in the door, he'd have done well. But getting his foot in the door might have been more difficult. And I think the same would be true for Bogie. If he got lucky and a role like Rick in a film like Casablanca came along for him...he would be immortal, just like he is today. But I think a role like Rick in a film like Casablanca would be alot harder to come by. And High Sierra, while it did lift him out from under Cagney & Robinson, would not be enough to build a career on. Not now. These days, a guy like Bogie would NEED a film like Casablanca. Because that was the film that turned Bogie from a gangster into sex symbol.
Now, one actor who I think would actually do BETTER today than he did back then is Spencer Tracy. Spencer Tracy was a superstar back then, to be sure, and an extremely talented man. But I could EASILY see Spencer Tracy playing about every big lawyer role in the movies these days. He was so matter-of-fact about everything, and I think audiences today like that even more than they did back then. In fact, I think his comedy would be better appreciated now precisely because of that matter-of-factness he had about him. I think Spencer Tracy would be HUGE. He'd be held in about the same regard as say, Tom Hanks.
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PKTrekGirl, coincidentally, you're mentioning some actors I've just started seeing in movies for the first time recently and I'd appreciate some recommendations. I just saw Gary Cooper for the first time in "High Noon", James Cagney in "White Heat", and Edward G. Robinson in "Double Indemnity" (although he wasn't the lead in that).
Technically, I saw Robinson years ago in "Soylent Green", but I don't remember him in it. Can't remember much about it besides how hilariously hammy Charlton Heston was.
What else would you recommend watching to see these actors doing their best work? I'm already planning on checking out "The Public Enemy" because I want to see some movies that feature Jean Harlow (I hear she was idolized by Marilyn Monroe) and I've got to see the famous scene in it that was parodied on "The Simpsons".
How'd you like "The Roaring Twenties" with Bogart and Cagney? I'm curious about that one too.
I just saw the brilliant gangster movie, "Bullets or Ballots," which stars Robinson, but also features Bogart in a big supporting role. I just saw better known "The Public Enemy" a week ago, too, and was slightly less impressed. Cagney is good in the role, but the movie often fell flat to me.
Have you ever read the SNL retrospective "Live From New York"? It provides quite a bit of insight from writers and actors into Murphy's sudden ascent to fame.
No, I haven't. Sounds fascinating. I'll look for it. Harvey, I appreciate the critique. I'm a little hesitant about watching "The Public Enemy", because I haven't read the most positive feedback on it.
Apparently the stars involved were a bit shaky since it was an early movie in most of their careers. While the famous scene sounds great, one scene is usually not reason enough to go out of one's way to see a movie. The other one you mentioned sounds right up my alley.
Apparently the stars involved were a bit shaky since it was an early movie in most of their careers. While the famous scene sounds great, one scene is usually not reason enough to go out of one's way to see a movie. The other one you mentioned sounds right up my alley.
We might soon find out if actors like Bogey would have "made it" today if the long-promised/threatened plans to recreate guys like him using CG for movie or TV projects ever comes to pass.
I think someone like Bogey probably would have gone the Harrison Ford route - they're very similar in some respects. Maybe not Bogart as Han Solo, but I could see him doing Jack Ryan or Witness or The Fugitive. Even Indiana Jones, to a degree.
Someone like Marilyn Monroe would probably exist in the Christina Hendricks mold and be a fan favorite appearing in strong supporting roles at first, later branching out into lead roles, like she did in the 1950s.
There was actually one case of an "old time" performer moving out of what I might call his comfort zone and into the modern day, and it was an acquired taste. John Wayne, after decades of westerns and classic war films, made a Dirty Harry-style film called McQ in 1974. It just looked weird seeing this guy driving "Kojak"-era cars and dealing with gritty crime drama.
Of course he wasn't the only one to "go modern", but for some reason that one that felt weird.
Alex
I think someone like Bogey probably would have gone the Harrison Ford route - they're very similar in some respects. Maybe not Bogart as Han Solo, but I could see him doing Jack Ryan or Witness or The Fugitive. Even Indiana Jones, to a degree.
Someone like Marilyn Monroe would probably exist in the Christina Hendricks mold and be a fan favorite appearing in strong supporting roles at first, later branching out into lead roles, like she did in the 1950s.
There was actually one case of an "old time" performer moving out of what I might call his comfort zone and into the modern day, and it was an acquired taste. John Wayne, after decades of westerns and classic war films, made a Dirty Harry-style film called McQ in 1974. It just looked weird seeing this guy driving "Kojak"-era cars and dealing with gritty crime drama.
Of course he wasn't the only one to "go modern", but for some reason that one that felt weird.
Alex
"McQ" is the only Wayne cop movie I can think of.
That being said, throughout his career Wayne did contempory (ie "modern" for that time period) films along with westerns, and that a lot of his "classic" war films were actually set in the present, or near-present, of the time they were produced.
"John Wayne is Brannigan!"
Ah, of course. I had a feeling there was another but I couldn't think of it. Thanks.
PKTrekGirl...hate to question what a mod says (uless it's the TNZ/Misc mods, of course), but...wasn't The Maltese Falcon what made Bogey into a sex symbol? Although Casablanca certainly gave him the "romantic" image--still....
He was offered the role of Dirty Harry ahead of Eastwood. So was Frank Sinatra, bizarrely.
Wayne as Dirty Harry. Hmm....
"You gotta ask yourself one thing: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well...do ya, pilgrim?"
"You gotta ask yourself one thing: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well...do ya, pilgrim?"
Yeah, supposedly Wayne did McQ and Brannigan after seeing how successful Eastwood (another "western" actor at the time) was in Dirty Harry and regretting not taking the role.
And Sinatra's not that surprising a choice, when you consider he'd played a tough guy in a fair number of films up to that time.
I've also heard once or twice (but never seen confirmation) that Elvis was considered for the Dirty Harry part.
Funny thing is: I can actually hear him doing that "Did he fire six shots or only five" speech.
Of course, instead of a serial killer, the camera would have to cut to a TV set.
Has anyone said Steve Buscemi yet?
He's not got what you would call the Hollywood pretty boy look.
He's not got what you would call the Hollywood pretty boy look.
