Cool with Q, but not the spore drive? Interesting...

[Longinus]

I equally find it tiresome that comparisons are made between things that are not at all similar. I think this Genesis Device and Spore Drive comparison is a perfect example of that. The former is a technology that utterly failed to do what was promised, it never worked and it was pretty much stated that it never could. The latter is technology that is shown to work perfectly several times, and which completely surpasses anything that anyone in the setting has ever been shown to be able to do, perhaps sans literal god level beings, such as Q.

 

[fireproof78]

Except, we don't have the whole story, so maybe we should allow that first instead of jumping to the conclusion that it is universe breaking. Especially with all the god beings running around.

 

[Ravenswood]

I agree with the OP. I'll never understand how Q gets a free pass but things like the spore drive or red matter get dissected like a high school project.

Starships driven by magic crystals gets a free pass, too, which to me seems way more fantasy-like than supposing life such as mycelia might exist across spacetime in unexpected but useful ways. (At least the Romulans' micro-blackhole based warp drive is halfway flirting with real science.)

 

[Longinus]

Starships driven by magic crystals gets a free pass, too, which to me seems way more fantasy-like than supposing life such as mycelia might exist across spacetime in unexpected but useful ways. (At least the Romulans' micro-blackhole based warp drive is halfway flirting with real science.)

The 'magic crystal' is just a macguffin, they don't even power the drive, the antimatter does. It is a 'perfectly normal' Alcubierre drive. NASA has literally run test with such technology. (Not that I expect it to actually work, but it is 'real science' enough that NASA decided that it was worth to burn probably millions of dollars to test it.) The dilithium crystals only exist to be a rare and important substance for plot reasons, it is not what the science of the Warp Drive is based on.

 

[Greg Cox]

It is a bit disconcerting that a prominent Trek author apparently hasn't seen Star Trek III...

Huh? That's what I was referring to. In STAR TREK III, the Klingons are determined to get their hands on the Genesis tech, it's a huge controversy, the Klingon ambassador is fulminating about it, etc. Lord knows the movie treats Genesis as this big game-changer that is worth killing for.

But by the time we get to the 24th Century, everybody seems to have forgotten about it, including the Klingons.

And yet people keep asking why the Klingons or the Romulans apparently forgot about the spore drive as well.

 

[fireproof78]

The 'magic crystal' is just a macguffin

Same with the spore drive.

 

[Longinus]

Huh? That's what I was referring to. In STAR TREK III, the Klingons are determined to get their hands on the Genesis tech, it's a huge controversy, the Klingon ambassador is fulminating about it, etc.

But by the time we get to the 24th Century, everybody seems to have forgotten about it, including the Klingons.

Because it was eighty years ago and unlike the Spore Drive, didn't actually work. How is this even a question?

 

[Longinus]

Same with the spore drive.

No.

 

[fireproof78]

No.

Yes.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Because it was eighty years ago and unlike the Spore Drive, didn't actually work. How is this even a question?

Genesis did not work in the manner Starfleet intended it to. It worked in the manner the Klingons hoped it would.

The only consistency in ST is inconsistency, so let's just enjoy this ride in a fresh direction. It's been great so far.

 

[Longinus]

Yes.

Sorry, but you don't understand what MacGuffin is. Warp Drive is not a MacGuffin, dilithium is. Spore Drive is not a MacGuffin.

 

[Ravenswood]

The 'magic crystal' is just a macguffin, they don't even power the drive, the antimatter does. It is a 'perfectly normal' Alcubierre drive. NASA has literally run test with such technology. (Not that I expect it to actually work, but it is 'real science' enough that NASA decided that it was worth to burn probably million of dollars to test it.) The dilithium crystals only exist to be a rare and important substance for plot reasons, it is not what the science of the Warp Drive is based on.

Interesting; I'd never heard of Alcubierre drive. I see there id a Wikipedia page about it, I'll check it out.

I have to disagree, though, that dilithium crystals are "just a macguffin"—after all, this is fiction: it's all a plot device, isn't? The crystals are essential components of the drive. In "Mudd's Women" we see the ship bit-by-bit breaking down as they fail en route to a planet where they are mined by wealthy miners who can put a starship captain at loggerheads over them. In "The Alternative Factor" crystals are stolen and must be recovered for the drive to work. Wesley Crusher smuggles some on board that old ship to revive the otherwise inoperable warp drive for war games, I forget the episode title.

But this is veering off topic...

 

[Longinus]

I have to disagree, though, that dilithium crystals are "just a macguffin"—after all, this is fiction: it's all a plot device, isn't? The crystals are essential components of the drive. In "Mudd's Women" we see the ship bit-by-bit breaking down as they fail en route to a planet where they are mined by wealthy miners who can put a starship captain at loggerheads over them. In "The Alternative Factor" crystals are stolen and must be recovered for the drive to work. Wesley Crusher smuggles some on board that old ship to revive the otherwise inoperable warp drive for war games, I forget the episode title.

Right, Those are exactly the reasons the crystals exist, to work as plot devices. They're really not the justification for the working of the warp engine, merely a part of that engine that can conveniently get lost and is difficult to replace. (Though Wesley smuggles antimatter, not dilithium.)

 

[fireproof78]

Sorry, but you don't understand what MacGuffin is. Warp Drive is not a MacGuffin, dilithium is. Spore Drive is not a MacGuffin.

The spores are the Macguffin then.

Regardless, the spore drive doesn't have a end of the story. Why not theorize and rationalize that?

 

[Ravenswood]

Right, Those are exactly the reasons the crystals exist, to work as plot devices. They're really not the justification for the working of the warp engine, merely a part of that engine that can conveniently get lost and is difficult to replace. (Though Wesley smuggles antimatter, not dilithium.)

That's right, antimatter. Thanks, it's been a while since I have seen that one.

But isn't everything in fiction a device to move the plot along? I've always balked at the whole macguffin concept as splitting a hair that isn't there. How do we decide one component is really necessary but another is a plot device and nothing more? In universe dilithium crystals are just as essential to FTL travel as the equally fictional warp core. Saying "dilithium crystals are just a macguffin, the other components are what really makes it work," makes as little sense as saying, "My car works by internal combustion of refined petroleum, which through the engine and transmission creates torque along a drive shaft to turn the wheels—so it really doesn't matter if I can find my keys. They're just a plot device."

 

[Longinus]

But isn't everything in fiction a device to move the plot along? I've always balked at the whole macguffin concept as splitting a hair that isn't there. How do we decide one component is really necessary but another is a plot device and nothing more? In universe dilithium crystals are just as essential to FTL travel as the equally fictional warp core. Saying "dilithium crystals are just a macguffin, the other components are what really makes it work," makes as little sense as saying, "My car works by internal combustion of refined petroleum, which through the engine and transmission creates torque along a drive shaft to turn the wheels—so it really doesn't matter if I can find my keys. They're just a plot device."

Sure. But it was a response to 'magic crystals'. Scientific justification for warp drive is not that 'magic crystals make the ship to go' any more than scientific justification for your car running is 'a magic piece of metal makes the car to go.' Space-time warping is a real scientific field of study, and that's the justification.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Maybe the mycelial network is turning Culber into a zombie....

 

[fireproof78]

Staring Nicholas Cage.

 

[Longinus]

Regardless, the spore drive doesn't have a end of the story. Why not theorize and rationalize that?

Are you working for CBS and desperately fishing for ideas for fixing this mess?

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Are you working for CBS and desperately fishing for ideas for fixing this mess?

How's life at FOX? Put "The Gifted" to rest for me, please and thank you.