Constitution Class Ships Seem To Be Everywhere

[BK613]

You never refit a classic car!

Never heard of a restomod, have you?

that real navies call their repairs "refit"

Actually, we in the US Navy called our repairs "repairs," our maintenance "maintenance," and our upgrades "upgrades" or "refits," the latter depending on how extensive the infrastructure changes were.

 

[Kor]

To the point on the Intrepid's smaller crew size... Kirk's ship had 430 crew members, but that didn't mean that other equivalent starships had to have just as many. Maybe each ship had some specific mission parameters, additional labs, etc. that necessitated more crew. In Pike's day the Enterprise got by with 203 people. So the Intrepid probably did just fine with 400.

Kor

 

[STEPhon IT]

To the point on the Intrepid's smaller crew size... Kirk's ship had 430 crew members, but that didn't mean that other equivalent starships had to have just as many. Maybe each ship had some specific mission parameters, additional labs, etc. that necessitated more crew. In Pike's day the Enterprise got by with 203 people. So the Intrepid probably did just fine with 400.

Kor

Kor, I thought Kirk's version of the Enterprise was a bit larger than Pike's. Is that correct?

 

[Dukhat]

Kor, I thought Kirk's version of the Enterprise was a bit larger than Pike's. Is that correct?

I don’t think so. I think the crew complement was just smaller. Which could be another indication that crew size doesn’t always necessarily dictate ship size.

 

[STEPhon IT]

So as they implemented more labs and more specified functions the crew got bigger.

 

[GNDN18]

Kor, I thought Kirk's version of the Enterprise was a bit larger than Pike's. Is that correct?

I don’t think so. I think the crew complement was just smaller. Which could be another indication that crew size doesn’t always necessarily dictate ship size.

The bridge was taller and the edge of the primary hull had one row of “windows” in the first and second pilot versions.

The production model had the shorter bridge and another window was added below the first level on the edge of the saucer. The crew complement is never stated in WNMHGB, but these changes to the model suggests an increase in size to account for the ~200 crew members.

 

[Maurice]

We only saw two eras of the TOS Enterprise: "The Cage" from 13 years prior, and the three years of TOS proper. And other than the ship looking like it did in "The Cage" and the flip-flopping of stock footage for three seasons of TOS, there is no indication at all that there was any kind of refit going on during those three years.

To pick a nit, what we mostly saw in the series was the ship as it appeared in shots filmed for "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and series production.

 

[BK613]

It seems that 400 was often the round-to number. It was "over four hundred" in Charlie X, "four hundred people" in The Apple, "over four hundred guys there" in A Piece of the Action, "the over four hundred men and women" in The Omega Glory, and Kirk rounds to "sixteen hundred men and women" in The Ultimate Computer. Given that, 400 Vulcans could be exactly that or just the common approximation.

 

[Ronald Held]

I suppose exact crew complement depends on the primary mission.
I believe that the refit before Kirk took over, involved smaller machines with the same or better functionality. This left more space for a larger crew.

 

[STEPhon IT]

THE CAGE did specify the crew complement was 200?

 

[STEPhon IT]

It seems that 400 was often the round-to number. It was "over four hundred" in Charlie X, "four hundred people" in The Apple, "over four hundred guys there" in A Piece of the Action, "the over four hundred men and women" in The Omega Glory, and Kirk rounds to "sixteen hundred men and women" in The Ultimate Computer. Given that, 400 Vulcans could be exactly that or just the common approximation.

In your opinion, based on what was seen in "The Immunity Syndrome" it's safe to say The Intrepid was part of the STARSHIP CLASS line?

 

[BK613]

THE CAGE did specify the crew complement was 200?

"PIKE: You bet I'm tired. You bet. I'm tired of being responsible for two hundred and three lives." So, at that point in time, a crew of 204 including Pike. And I would be in the "refit-freed-up-more-space" camp when it comes to why the crew size increased.

In your opinion, based on what was seen in "The Immunity Syndrome" it's safe to say The Intrepid was part of the STARSHIP CLASS line?

Yep, I would think that was the case, though the internals might cater to Vulcans in terms of environment and recreation (more meditation rooms, less bowling alleys LOL)

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

"PIKE: You bet I'm tired. You bet. I'm tired of being responsible for two hundred and three lives." So, at that point in time, a crew of 204 including Pike. And I would be in the "refit-freed-up-more-space" camp when it comes to why the crew size increased.

That's certainly a possible explanation... I prefer the alternative that Pike's mission was a relative "close to home milk run" so had a minimalist crew needed to fly the ship, whereas Kirk was sent on an extended exploratory mission with increased security, scientists and other crossed-trained specialists.

Of course that was somewhat Jossed by the DSC tie-in books and maybe the Discoprise's non-appearance for most DSC's first season but YMMV.

 

[Herbert]

However, since the whole point of fandom (and thus this forum) is to speculate on an in-universe explanation for discrepancies, what might that be?

First of all that isn't the "whole point" of fandom and even if you believe that, it certainly doesn't need to be that way. A lot of people on this board certainly take batshit crazy theories and speculations to an extreme. Embarrassingly so sometimes.

Trekbbs can be something better than that but only if people want it to be better.

 

[Noname Given]

First of all that isn't the "whole point" of fandom and even if you believe that, it certainly doesn't need to be that way. A lot of people on this board certainly take batshit crazy theories and speculations to an extreme. Embarrassingly so sometimes.

Trekbbs can be something better than that but only if people want it to be better.

Better than what? Seriously, all we're doing is discussing elements of a show / IP that we enjoy. Nobody here is trying to claim Star Trek is realistic in any way. We're just taking a break and trying to explain the numerous inconsistencies because we have fun doing so. I don't get what's so embarrassing about that.

 

[BK613]

That's certainly a possible explanation... I prefer the alternative that Pike's mission was a relative "close to home milk run" so had a minimalist crew needed to fly the ship, whereas Kirk was sent on an extended exploratory mission with increased security, scientists and other crossed-trained specialists.

Hmm, Pike and Company were a mere 18 light-years from a place where there were "no ships or Earth colonies that far out." So I figure they were out on the fringes. And the four dead on Rigel doesn't come across as a milk run.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It doesn't seem like a starship captain who's gotten tired of responsibility after a milk run would have much of a future in Starfleet. On the other hand, getting tired of it is something he might say after multiple high stress, high stakes adventures, and at such point the ship's doctor might recommend rest leave for him, and he might be considering resigning. That's what we saw in "The Cage." At that point, the normal complement was intended to be 203, which might or might not have also included the captain.

 

[fireproof78]

Yep, I would think that was the case,

That was always my thinking, and it was treated as such in the Encyclopedia at least. Concordance I'm less certain of. I created a flag with the insignia once of the Intrepid.

 

[There Be Whales Here]

First of all that isn't the "whole point" of fandom and even if you believe that, it certainly doesn't need to be that way. A lot of people on this board certainly take batshit crazy theories and speculations to an extreme. Embarrassingly so sometimes.

Trekbbs can be something better than that but only if people want it to be better.

While it can seem to an outsider of the SNL Shatner "Get a life!" persuasion that fandom can veer too far into the weeds of geekdom over a TV show, but to me that has always shown how much of a personal investment fans have had in that universe and how, at least for them, it is more than just a TV show. And while some may view that as negative obsession, I've always viewed it as a labor of love and how much of a positive influence it's had on others. As a result those fans are driven to seek far more of that fictional universe than currently presented and which takes many different creative directions, one of which is speculative discussion over the minutia, such as on this board.

So yes, while I have noticed in my short time here that sometimes topics have a way of getting sidetracked, but I again think that highlights the passion we have for the product more than anything else and it was due to my genuine ruminations I have had on the subject of the thread that I decided to pose the question at large. You have been a member here longer than me and obviously know the ins and outs of this place as to what everyone else can do to make it "be better"; so we are all ears.

 

[STEPhon IT]

That's certainly a possible explanation... I prefer the alternative that Pike's mission was a relative "close to home milk run" so had a minimalist crew needed to fly the ship, whereas Kirk was sent on an extended exploratory mission with increased security, scientists and other crossed-trained specialists.

Of course that was somewhat Jossed by the DSC tie-in books and maybe the Discoprise's non-appearance for most DSC's first season but YMMV.

The visuals from THE CAGE was very interesting, and based on what Pike expressed to his Doctor it seemed The Enterprise crew had a sense of historical far away missions than just a "close to home milk run". DISCO and its world is far different than what I saw in THE CAGE; its not the same. It would've been interesting if the ALL PARAMONT ACCESS engage that world Gene Roddenberry created.