They did it at his command. Under his leadership.
Kirk saves the Earth, Kirk gets to command a big ship. Perfectly appropriate reward.
Consider this about Kirk's promotion...
- Thread starter Norrin Radd
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They did it at his command. Under his leadership.
Kirk saves the Earth, Kirk gets to command a big ship. Perfectly appropriate reward.
J.T.B., as Dennis pointed out, Kirk has already accomplished saving the planet with a starship, so he can command one.
There is no historical data concerning promotion-as-reward for saving the planet; it's in a class by itself.
And Kirk did not save the day; he saved the planet. No bright people are going to resent him for that; the bright ones are going to congratulate him.
There is no historical data concerning promotion-as-reward for saving the planet; it's in a class by itself.
And Kirk did not save the day; he saved the planet. No bright people are going to resent him for that; the bright ones are going to congratulate him.
I just want to say I'm on Kirk's side here before I point out:
Kirk would not have had the opportunity to save the planet if the ship didn't arrive late to the party.
So actually it was Sulu, if unintentionally, who saved everyone. Where is HIS promotion?
Which brings me to: Who said only Kirk was promoted? His was the only promotion we were shown, but perhaps Sulu WAS promoted to full Lieutenant, as well as Uhura and Chekov at least to ensign.
Scotty's rank before saving the Enterprise is unknown he might have been made a Lieutenant Commander.
Bones didn't really contribute to saving earth except by smuggling Kirk aboard in the first place. His rank must be that of a field professionalist.
So that only leaves Spock who only was only able to contribute after he started following KIRK's orders.
Kirk would not have had the opportunity to save the planet if the ship didn't arrive late to the party.
So actually it was Sulu, if unintentionally, who saved everyone. Where is HIS promotion?
Which brings me to: Who said only Kirk was promoted? His was the only promotion we were shown, but perhaps Sulu WAS promoted to full Lieutenant, as well as Uhura and Chekov at least to ensign.
Scotty's rank before saving the Enterprise is unknown he might have been made a Lieutenant Commander.
Bones didn't really contribute to saving earth except by smuggling Kirk aboard in the first place. His rank must be that of a field professionalist.
So that only leaves Spock who only was only able to contribute after he started following KIRK's orders.
No one ever explains how much time elapsed between the Enterprise escaping the singularity and Kirk becoming a captain. It could be hours, if that floats your boat. I like to think that's a longer period than just a few days. Yeah, everyone is still in their academy suits, but this still could give Kirk some more time in maturing into a person worthy of being the captain of the Federation flagship.
The only problem with that is Pike. He's still in his wheelchair when Kirk gets the captaincy. What's wrong with him that it takes him so long to recover? All these Centaurian Slugs supposedly do is make you tell the truth.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. I'm sure the Enterprise needed some serious repairs after all that, and somewhere in there Pike was promoted to admiral. I think there's still enough "wiggle room" for everybody to draw their own conclusions.
Sums up my point of view exacly, well said.
I enjoyed the film but this promotion buisness was entirely Mary Sue/Gary Stu-ish. I can live with it but let's not fool ourselves.
Vons
I'm actually hoping we see some of this from Uhura in the next movie. Between their preexisting animosity and the way he went after Spock on the bridge, I'd like to see Uhura as the crewmember who is still not a part of Kirk's fan club.
Well, Kirk didn't actually save the planet in TOS, but he did at least twice in the movies, and looking at how Starfleet responded each time may be instructive.
After he saved the planet in TMP, Starfleet... well, they gave him command of the Enterprise despite his not being a Captain, giving him a "temporary grade reduction" to Captain and letting him command the Enterprise for another five year mission.
After he saved the planet in again in TVH, Starfleet... well, they gave him command of the Enterprise despite his not being a Captain again, excusing a litany of rather grievous offences, using them instead only as an excuse to demote him back to Captain so they could give him command of the new Enterprise without resorting to a "temporary grade reduction" again.
So when Starfleet in the new movie reacts to Kirk saving the planet by giving him command of the Enterprise despite his not being a Captain, it's not exactly something that would be unimaginable in the prime universe.
It was a bit of a stretch, but you have to consider that Uhura was promoted directly to Lieutenant herself, and that Pike had always had an interest in Kirk's career and was just promoted to Admiral himself. It's still a bit of a stretch, but with Pike now an Admiral, he could have pulled some strings to make it happen if he really believed Kirk would gain little from moving up in the ranks like most officers.
Some of the other crewmembers did better than Kirk. The regular communications guy doesn't know Romulan well enough, so he's permanently replaced by Uhura. The helmsman is in sickbay, so he's permanently replaced by Sulu. Goodness knows who the chief engineer was (they never said Olsen was the chief), but because Scotty knows a magic beaming trick, he becomes chief engineer!
And don't forget. Everyone and their mother can work a transporter with much greater efficiency than the assigned Transporter Chief! Except of course when the plot needs it. RIP Amanda.
Omega_Glory
Commodore
This is just a fan assumption...never confirmed onscreen, unless something from TNG metioned it.
But he is already an experienced 25 or so year space veteran at this time...giving him command of a ship is no big deal. He's been there, done that before....and is the most legendary Captain alive at the time. Not the same situation at all as the new film.
Kirk in this new film is a wet-behind-the-ears cadet. His experience level is that of a midshipman on his first cruise. Giving such a person command of the fleet flagship would be in fact be unimaginable in the prime universe. Kirk's level of maturity is somewhere below what Luke Skywalker showed in the first Star Wars. Certainly not fleet flagship material.
Actually, yes, I believe they did say Olsen was the chief engineer before Scotty.
Isn't this question as simple as Starfleet having a profound respect for Pike? Pike was noted as the person to obtain the rank of Captain the fastest. Pike personally recruited Kirk, and it was evident, he did his research on Kirk-- "Your aptitude tests are off the chart," etc. In the heat of battle with Nero, Pike puts Kirk in a position to be Spock's XO and take command of the ship if needed. Pike clearly respects Kirk.
Thus, maybe Kirk was rushed into the rank in an unrealistic time fashion, but perhaps that was partially due to the influence of Captain Pike, someone Starfleet greatly respects so I imagine some Admirals consented, even if they didn't like it, to Pike's request to make Kirk the captain.
Thus, maybe Kirk was rushed into the rank in an unrealistic time fashion, but perhaps that was partially due to the influence of Captain Pike, someone Starfleet greatly respects so I imagine some Admirals consented, even if they didn't like it, to Pike's request to make Kirk the captain.
fixed
Remember Nero wasn't going to stop at Earth. He said he was going to destroy EVERY FEDERATION PLANET.
EVERY PLANET. How many lives is that... How many? DO you know? I don't think Numbers GO that high...
So yeah Saving the ENTIRE FEDERATION (Minus Vulcan) Does deserve own god damn Starship.
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Shh... you'll spoil the sequel.
Edit: I wish I could reinterpret Pike's "four years at the Academy, four more to command a ship at your own" to mean that one had to serve for at least four years before coming back to the Academy for special command track training.
Of course, considering Cadet Kirk did it in three anyway...
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If they are so piss-weak that their combined might can't take on one mining vessel from the future, then they are going to be wiped out pretty quickly anyway.
Now let's inject a dose of reality (and play Devils Advocate
):You have a guy who cheated an official no win scenario which is aimed at teaching the cadets how to cope with a hopeless situation and still remain in control to maybe salvage a little bit from the situation.
That cadet displayed supreme arrogance when placed before an official board of inquiry that clearly showed he has no real command experience and failed to learn the lesson intended.
Next we have him on board a flagship due to a heavy break in Starfleet regulation by one of his friends effectively having them earn at least a lasting entry in both of their files.
After that the first act of insubordination.. arguing with his captain about the course of action in front of the entire crew, then resisting command and assaulting security officers.. all this again in front of the crew
Next in line would be insubordination again after sneaking on board again and insulting his commanding officer again just to assume command.
Man.. these points alone should have him in the brig for a long time and after that drummed out of the military if Star Trek were realistic but since he saved Earth and is now a visible, very popular, public figure Starfleet just couldn't kick his ass out even if they wanted to (and probably would have done so with any other cadet if he had behaved like that in a crisis situation).
If i were Captain of a Starfleet ship and had to deal with a fresh out of academy hotshot young Kirk i'd kick his ass so hard he would have no need to use a warpdrive to travel between the stars. It is one way to be full of energy, goals and young so maybe a bit overzealous to make an impression and leave a mark in history (all job beginners are like that trying to reinvent the wheel) but if he as so much crticize me in front of the crew that would be it.
There is no way for such behaviour in a professional organization.. the qualities of Kirk are sorely needed in every command position.. the drive, the ego and the skills but it has to be tempered by experience. When you have the responsibilty for hundreds of lives you have to consider your options carefully and work as a team and not be a solo player who wants to save everyone by himself.
However this being a movie universe we got what we got and it was excellent!
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