Consider this about Kirk's promotion...

[Lt. Trull]

They state WHY they promoted him to captain when the give him his ribbon...
Inspirational Valor, and Supreme Dedication to his shipmates.

and that explains why the Kobayashi Maru test really doesn't work... all it does is teach star ship officers to give up in the face of adversity.... Both Jim and George Kirk did not believe in the no win sceanario... which is why they can make the critical decision that saves hundreds or billions of people... jim just happened to have a spock to pull his butt out of the fire.

 

[Praetor]

But the Kobayashi Maru isn't meant to make cadets give up. It's meant to see how they handle unavoidable defeat - a test of character. I would think such an observation of a potential command candidate would be invaluable.

 

[Peter the Younger]

They state WHY they promoted him to captain when the give him his ribbon...
Inspirational Valor, and Supreme Dedication to his shipmates.

and that explains why the Kobayashi Maru test really doesn't work... all it does is teach star ship officers to give up in the face of adversity.... Both Jim and George Kirk did not believe in the no win sceanario... which is why they can make the critical decision that saves hundreds or billions of people... jim just happened to have a spock to pull his butt out of the fire.

Indeed. Upon the third viewing, I thought of a line Kirk might have said to counter Spock's argument:

"Certain death doesn't teach fear, it teaches you to give up and accept your fate. As for my father... well I guess that depends on how you define winning."

(Threw Pike's line in there for good measure.)

I get the "test of character" thing, but that doesn't gel with Spock's argument. Certain death engenders a sort of fatalism, it's very much against the ethos of Starfleet. The command exam given to Troi in "Thine Own Self" is a lot more practical, as it teaches the old "the needs of the many" lesson.

Edit: another argument on Kirk's behalf I realized on the third viewing: Kirk is taking the test electively, for the third time, and it's obviously not the sort of thing you get a letter grade on, it's a psych test. It would be absurd to expel a cadet for something like that, he had nothing to gain but to prove a point.

 

[Lt. Trull]

which then he'd get a award for original thinking...

 

[Praetor]

They state WHY they promoted him to captain when the give him his ribbon...
Inspirational Valor, and Supreme Dedication to his shipmates.

and that explains why the Kobayashi Maru test really doesn't work... all it does is teach star ship officers to give up in the face of adversity.... Both Jim and George Kirk did not believe in the no win sceanario... which is why they can make the critical decision that saves hundreds or billions of people... jim just happened to have a spock to pull his butt out of the fire.

Indeed. Upon the third viewing, I thought of a line Kirk might have said to counter Spock's argument:

"Certain death doesn't teach fear, it teaches you to give up and accept your fate. As for my father... well I guess that depend on how you define winning."

(Threw Pike's line in there for good measure.)

I get the "Test of character thing, but that doesn't gel with Spock's argument. Certain death engenders a sort of fatalism, it's very much against the ethos of Starfleet. The command exam given to Troi in "Thine Own Self" is a lot more practical, as it teaches the old "the needs of the many" lesson.

I do agree that the TNG exam seems more practical. I also think Spock was (gasp) making the wrong argument, because being a Vulcan he didn't really understand the benefit of such a test.

But, I do see how it could prove demoralizing.

 

[Vicki]

I completely accepted Kirk's metoric rise while I was watching STXI.

Afterwards thinking about, I squinted crosseyed at it real hard and fanwanked it. Star Fleet didn't promote him to captain of the Enterprise. Pike and Spock did that. Star Fleet just left him there, which is not quite the same thing.

It's established that at least some cadets hold Star Fleet commissions while still at the Academy. We know Savik was a Lt while still a cadet, and Wesley was already an Ensign went he got there. So I see the Academy as a blend of Annapolis & West Point & the graduate level War College. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that the best of the command track cadets are already commisioned officers well before they leave the Academy.

During the choas of the cadet mustering in the hanger, an anonomous Star Fleet guy says to one group of cadets, "Welcome to Star Fleet." So it's also reasonable to assume all the cadets in the hanger were graduated early en mass.

This rest of it is a stetch but hell, I watched X-Files to the bitter end because I was invested in the charactors, so I'm all over Fanwanking R Us.

Kirk on the Enterprise is still on academic suspension. It's clear Pike expected to die and wanted Kirk (brillant & gifted cadet, and wild card) on the bridge. So as the only senior officer present, Pike reconvenes the hearing (which he would certainly know wouldn't stand after the dust settled unless they won big) and issues a summery judgement clearing Kirk so he can promote him to first officer.

I think it's semi-reasonable to assume that first officer of a ship the size of the Enterprise carries an automatic promotion to Lt. Cmdr. So. Now I've got Kirk only one promotion away from captain.

Pike is, against all expectatons, still alive and back on the Enterpise. This makes him still the ship's captain (even though on medical status) and Kirk is his first officer currently in command. During Pike's recovery while the ship is in the Yard, Kirk stays in command. This give Star Fleet time to evalute how he handles day to day command when no one's shooting at him.

Anybody think that the Spock (Kirk's original accusor) that we saw on the bridge with Kirk facing Nero, would object to any of this?

So, game over. And Kirk & company won HUGELY. If Pike were dead, Kirk would be easier for Star Fleet to replace. But right now, Kirk is the hero of the day who just saved every living thing on Earth. He wouldn't be the first guy decorated and promoted because it was that or toss him in the brig and lose the key.

Is it likely? Hell no. But it does pass my fanwankery threshold.

 

[Maxum]

Vicki, nice analysis. I had no problem with the rapid promotion, and although it is not realistic in military terms, my thoughts on the subject were: How do you take a man like James Kirk, who took legitimate command of the Enterprise and in doing so, saved Earth, the Enterprise, and destroyed an enemy that was terrorizing the galaxy, and then demote him back down to cadet? Why? Because he didn't properly rise through the ranks? Now THAT would be more ludicrous to me.

I think Pike felt immense pride when Kirk was officially granted the captaincy of the Enterprise because Pike was the person who recognized the enormous potential in Kirk. For Pike it must have been gratifying to see that his instincts proved true. There is a real "father/son" type of moment between Pike and Kirk when they shake hands. That was one of many favorite moments for me.

 

[Lt. Trull]

u mean finally.... a father figure that kirk could look up too.... and respect.

 

[Vicki]

Pike said his aptitude tests were off the charts and asked him if he enjoyed being the only genius level repeat offender in the midwest.

 

[Vicki]

The fundemental Doylist requirement of the reboot is that STXI had to contain the Kobayashi Maru and end up with seven people on the Enterprise including Kirk as the captain. Given that, however unlikely it might be, Kirk's promotion works for me.

 

[Sci]

and that explains why the Kobayashi Maru test really doesn't work... all it does is teach star ship officers to give up in the face of adversity....

Actually, the opposite is true. The point of the Kobayashi Maru test is to teach officers how to continue doing their duty in the face of imminent and unavoidable death.

I imagine that it can also be used to help teach cadets the difference between when it's necessary to do your duty unto death and when it's necessary to retreat, but that doesn't seem to have been the point of it in Star Trek II.

 

[Bartay]

What would Kirk's "MOS" be?

And what shirt would he have worn (Gold, Blue, Red), if given the chance to change?

And rank? Ensign, LTjg, or LT?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

On that theory alone, he should have become Fleet Admiral or even President of the Federation.

Nonsense. He's displayed skills as an acting Captain, but never as an acting Admiral or President. That's the difference.

What do you have to save to become President? Is there a Constitutional requirement?

 

[Jeri]

I am so glad you dug up this watershed thread. I have been wanting to point it out ever since that apocryphal one appeared.