Consider this about Kirk's promotion...

[Mr. Laser Beam]

No one ever explains how much time elapsed between the Enterprise escaping the singularity and Kirk becoming a captain. It could be hours, if that floats your boat. I like to think that's a longer period than just a few days. Yeah, everyone is still in their academy suits, but this still could give Kirk some more time in maturing into a person worthy of being the captain of the Federation flagship.

The only problem with that is Pike. He's still in his wheelchair when Kirk gets the captaincy. What's wrong with him that it takes him so long to recover? All these Centaurian Slugs supposedly do is make you tell the truth.

 

[Jeri]

They wrap around your spinal cord; that's why he can't walk.

 

[theFirebottle]

The only problem with that is Pike. He's still in his wheelchair when Kirk gets the captaincy. What's wrong with him that it takes him so long to recover? All these Centaurian Slugs supposedly do is make you tell the truth.

Let's say the creature takes the quickest route to the brain stem from the soft palate. Even if it spends as little time as possible screwing around in there and gets to its destination post haste... yeah, a thing that big is really gonna fuck your head up, even before it starts strangling parts of your brain. That doesn't even take into account the prospect of toxins, secondary infections, and the hazards of the surgery required to extract the thing. If it's a creature that's unknown to Federation science, there's always a chance that they have a hard enough time figuring out how to extract the damn thing without killing Pike, let alone fixing all of the damage it's done.

Now that I think about it while looking at an anatomical diagram, it would have made a hell of a lot of sense for Pike's nose to have been bleeding when Kirk came to rescue him. Looks like the quickest way to the brain stem is through the nasal cavity...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Wouldn't it be pretty damn hard for any captain to have Jim Kirk under his or her command?

I mean, the guy has saved Earth and avenged Vulcan, so he'd basically be a living legend around the Federation. He would have likely accomplished bigger things than any living captain currently in command of a starship.

Jellico had that problem with Riker. Riker had saved the Federation from the Borg, while Jellico had...Jellico had...I dunno, Jellico must have done something impressive at some point in his life, but no one ever brought it up.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Jellico had that problem with Riker. Riker had saved the Federation from the Borg, while Jellico had...Jellico had...I dunno, Jellico must have done something impressive at some point in his life, but no one ever brought it up.

Jellico negotiated the peace with Cardassia.

 

[Jeri]

Jellico had that problem with Riker. Riker had saved the Federation from the Borg, while Jellico had...Jellico had...I dunno, Jellico must have done something impressive at some point in his life, but no one ever brought it up.

Jellico negotiated the peace with Cardassia.

That needs a rolleye emoticon.

 

[theFirebottle]

I hope Trek writers in the future can acknowledge the fact that Starfleet captains all need to be good at what they do, and not just main characters.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Wouldn't it be pretty damn hard for any captain to have Jim Kirk under his or her command?

I mean, the guy has saved Earth and avenged Vulcan, so he'd basically be a living legend around the Federation. He would have likely accomplished bigger things than any living captain currently in command of a starship.

Jellico had that problem with Riker. Riker had saved the Federation from the Borg, while Jellico had...Jellico had...I dunno, Jellico must have done something impressive at some point in his life, but no one ever brought it up.

Yeah, Riker could still serve under Picard no problem because of their pre-existing friendship and respect and because Picard was no slouch either in the hero department.

And if Kirk had been stationed under Pike that it would have been okay because they already have a working relationship and Pike was also a hero for saving his ass on the Romulan ship.

But Pike was promoted to Admiral and I just don't see Kirk being placed under someone else's command.

After all, commanding officers are like bull elk and the crew are their cows. It's a battle of dominance and the inferior must bow before the superior or get thrown out of the herd.

 

[kythe]

I've wondered why anyone would want to serve under Kirk. He was a deliquent who managed to surpass many experienced, respectable officers to get where he was. I doubt they will just blindly follow him just because he has suddenly been given rank. He still needs to earn their respect.

Another problem is his relationship with Spock. They openly opposed each other both at the academy and on the bridge of the ship. Sure, we all know the future friendship between the two and that Spock Prime gave them a nudge, but most of Starfleet doesn't know that. On the surface, it looks like nothing but trouble to put these two together.

Spock did volunteer for first officer, but it's going to take some explaining to a lot of people regarding why an outstanding officer would suddenly decide to follow a notoriously immature and irresponsible cadet on a ship. His reasons would not be readily apparant to most of the crew or his superiors.

 

[BenRoethig]

Even if they hung a lantern on it, it would have made me feel better, like: "By special order of the Federation Council, you are hereby commissioned at the rank of Captain, and are ordered to report to Admiral Pike, as his relief." Basically just say, yeah, we know this is nuts, but this is a special case.

Teddy Roosevelt did something similar in 1905, advancing John J. Pershing four ranks from Captain to Brigadier General. And boy did it piss off those 835 officers he skipped! Not quite the same, I know, but there is a precedent for advancement under unusual conditions.

Pershing had been a commissioned officer for 19 years not counting the 4 at west point.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Pershing didn't save Earth.

 

[Jeri]

Pershing didn't save Earth.

Somehow Kirk doing so fails to qualify as highly unusual circumstances for some people; I don't get that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Pershing didn't save Earth.

I don't know why people keep using that as an excuse. I don't care if Kirk saved Earth a thousand times. Nothing justifies such a rapid rise in rank.

 

[Jeri]

Pershing didn't save Earth.

I don't know why people keep using that as an excuse. I don't care if Kirk saved Earth a thousand times. Nothing justifies such a rapid rise in rank.

Why doesn't it matter?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Pershing didn't save Earth.

I don't know why people keep using that as an excuse. I don't care if Kirk saved Earth a thousand times. Nothing justifies such a rapid rise in rank.

Why doesn't it matter?

You can give Kirk a medal, or promote him one *or at the most, two* grades, but not all the way to Captain. Rank doesn't work that way! Officers must work their way UP THROUGH THE RANKS. All those ranks are there to be used!

And in the end...What does Kirk know about running a starship? How has he earned the respect and loyalty of his crew, most of whom don't even know him? If Kirk is such hot shit, what about all those other officers with the ranks of Commander, Lieutenant Commander, etc., who actually EARNED those ranks? What are they, processed chicken?

Kirk didn't have to be given the RANK of Captain in order to have the position of it. In the novel, I believe it's made clear that Kirk is technically an Academy graduate, with the rank of Lieutenant (this is also what happened in TOS). Why not have Starfleet say: "Lieutenant Kirk, in recognition of your outstanding conduct, you are hereby appointed acting commanding officer of the Enterprise until such time as Admiral Pike is fit to resume command." I wouldn't have a problem with that. It leaves open the possibility that Kirk can actually earn future ranks.

 

[Jeri]

You can give Kirk a medal, or promote him one *or at the most, two* grades, but not all the way to Captain. Rank doesn't work that way! Officers must work their way UP THROUGH THE RANKS. All those ranks are there to be used!

And in the end...What does Kirk know about running a starship? How has he earned the respect and loyalty of his crew, most of whom don't even know him? If Kirk is such hot shit, what about all those other officers with the ranks of Commander, Lieutenant Commander, etc., who actually EARNED those ranks? What are they, processed chicken?

Those other officers are NOT the guy who saved the planet; that's who they are not.

They would be the first to say so, too -- except for the ones who aren't worth a spit.

I had to laugh at the notion that Kirk hasn't earned the respect and loyalty of his crew. Saving the planet is pretty much the pinnacle of great politics.

The nuts and bolts of commanding a starship can be learned pretty quick, with a supportive crew -- which they certainly would be. They would adore him.

 

[Cakes488]

Eh, I still think it was a stretch from a narrative standpoint, but I understand it as a business decision. All franchises are ultimately constrained by what the "casual fan" will understand/accept, and Paramount obviously decided that it's gotta be Captain Kirk by the end of the movie. Having said that, I wish the writers would have covered themselves with a bit of a fig leaf. Even if they hung a lantern on it, it would have made me feel better, like: "By special order of the Federation Council, you are hereby commissioned at the rank of Captain, and are ordered to report to Admiral Pike, as his relief." Basically just say, yeah, we know this is nuts, but this is a special case.

(And yeah, I know we can assume that is what happened, but this is a case where they could have bolstered the fan service a little without slowing down the film.)

Agree with you 100%...just a one liner like this in there would of made all the difference.....

Pershing didn't save Earth.

I don't know why people keep using that as an excuse. I don't care if Kirk saved Earth a thousand times. Nothing justifies such a rapid rise in rank.

Why doesn't it matter?

It doesn't matter because people will make excuses till the cows come home...instead of being rational (lol look who's talking) and seeing it for what it really is......... which is preposterous! I would of much preferred that they ended the movie with Kirk being told...."one day you're going to make a great captain son"....something to that effect, and then in the next installment we can see him on the bridge and join the adventure which is already in progess...It all felt very rushed at the end....like hurry up the movie is ending we gotta make him Cap't....quick!

 

[Jeri]

It doesn't matter because people will make excuses till the cows come home...instead of being rational (lol look who's talking) and seeing it for what it really is......... which is preposterous! I would of much preferred that they ended the movie with Kirk being told...."one day you're going to make a great captain son"....something to that effect, and then in the next installment we can see him on the bridge and join the adventure which is already in progess...It all felt very rushed at the end....like hurry up the movie is ending we gotta make him Cap't....quick!

Preposterous is right; seems like posters have become inured to what saving the planet means.

 

[kythe]

Preposterous is right; seems like posters have become inured to what saving the planet means.

If he had saved the planet but wasn't even in Starfleet at all, what would that mean? Probably nothing. It's not that people aren't grateful for his actions, his heroism would be acknowledged. His promotion to captain just isn't a believable outcome.

 

[Cyke101]

It doesn't matter because people will make excuses till the cows come home...instead of being rational (lol look who's talking) and seeing it for what it really is......... which is preposterous! I would of much preferred that they ended the movie with Kirk being told...."one day you're going to make a great captain son"....something to that effect, and then in the next installment we can see him on the bridge and join the adventure which is already in progess...It all felt very rushed at the end....like hurry up the movie is ending we gotta make him Cap't....quick!

Preposterous is right; seems like posters have become inured to what saving the planet means.

Poor Spider-Man, every time he saves the planet, there's an essay to do or a deadline to meet. At least when James Bond saves the world, he gets a new car and the girl!