Computer programming

[DimesDan]

OK, I’m not going to put up with rudeness and condescension like that. Of course I realise I’m a clueless beginner.

Realising you don't know the answer is a really good thing, getting hostile at people for actively trying to help you, by advising what you should do to achieve your goal, not so good.

And no, I don’t have thousands of pounds in savings to spend on online courses.

Did you open the link or even read the URL?

They're free, as in no money needing to be spent by you, just your time.

 

[Random_Spock]

Have you looked into w3schools? It's another good resource. Used it while I was taking a class about websites and HTML.

https://www.w3schools.com/

Don't worry either, they're completely free site wise.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Well, I'm very bad at math, but I've always held an interest in programming. When I was 8, I would often fiddle around with Basic. Later on I had self-taught myself coding HTML which itself is a form of programming. These days, I do a lot of volunteer work doing webwork.

There are a lot of different programming languages, some easier than others of course, but I've always found a way to make it work for me. The downside is when someone wants something more complex. I once answered a job ad from someone well-respected in my community who it turns out didn't even know what they wanted and totally misrepresented it in the ad. I went in thinking they wanted simple website work per the ad, when in fact what they wanted was a complete overhaul including an integrated database which was way above what I knew I was able to do.

 

[dahj]

Would they even supply something that UK employers would even recognise?

Honestly, a piece of paper with a certificate or something isn't worth much, or really anything these days so feel absolutely free to skip paying courses, there's plenty of free material online to learn from.

What most employers look for is experience. Luckily this is one of the very few professions where you can easily get experience without getting a proper job first, there's lots of freelancing opportunities, or even just building your own apps so you have something to point to when you apply to jobs.

 

[dahj]

1. Without the qualifications, how would I appeal to employers? Even basic IT jobs I’ve seen seem to all require qualifications, often a degree.

The job market for coding jobs currently (in the EU at least) is such that if you've only finished kindergarten in your formal schooling but have 2 years of experience you're instantly hireable.

Yes, with no experience you will be at a disadvantage against CS graduates, but if you get just half a years worth of freelancing to show for yourself, you're probably more likely to get hired than someone fresh out of Uni.

2. Is self employment a requirement for programming work? I want to avoid self employment at all costs.

No, there's loads of regular jobs.

 

[Avro Arrow]

As a programmer with a degree in Mathematics, I can honestly say... I really only need basic math skills in my current job. I have never really had to use any of the advanced mathematics we learned in uni; and in fact have most likely forgotten the majority of it due to disuse. That being said, I'm in a business environment. If I was working for NASA or the Department of National Defence or something, then things might have been different.

More important skills are the ability to think logically, and the ability to break complex tasks down to their smallest individual components. Memorizing syntax is helpful, but I tend to find that the more languages you learn, the syntax tends to blend together in your mind a bit. But there are always syntax references online that you can refer to if you need to.

One word of warning: I don't know how the situation is in the UK, but in North America, with the advent of offshoring, and the general trend of corporations hiring independent contractors instead of full-time employees, the profession is somewhat more precarious than it used to be. Depending on the labour situation where you are from, you may find you will need sell your skills as a contractor, which from what you have written, it seems you are not exactly comfortable with.

All that being said, as others have mentioned, there are great free references online that can help you learn the skills you need. Or alternatively, you can even start with a good beginner-level book, if you prefer to go that way.

I do have to ask, though, and please forgive me... is this something you actually want? Just reading your posts, it sounds more like something you are looking at pursuing because you feel that you should, not because you are actually interested in the field. Basing such a fundamental choice in your life from a recommendation that appears to be based on nothing other than a medical diagnosis, that you would otherwise have absolutely no interest in, sounds a little bit questionable. If you are getting into a field because you think you "have to", and not because you want to, you are possibly setting yourself up for years of stress and unhappiness. This is just an observation, though. Please forgive me if it is out of line.

 

[Butters]

Do you currently work with Excel? My route in to programming was an admin job with a huge amount of repetition that led me to automation and Visual Basic (VBA), and I built more and more complex routines that gave me the experience to land myself jobs in IT.

There’s also coding for fun. I’m not big on modern games, but there is a freeware programme called Dizzy Age that allows you to construct eighties style platform adventure games. It has a graphical user interface, but to bring your game to life you’ll need to learn some code. There’s a good user manual and online tutorials. It’s as good a place to start as any.

 

[Galactic Alignment]

Do you currently work with Excel? My route in to programming was an admin job with a huge amount of repetition that led me to automation and Visual Basic (VBA), and I built more and more complex routines that gave me the experience to land myself jobs in IT.

There’s also coding for fun. I’m not big on modern games, but there is a freeware programme called Dizzy Age that allows you to construct eighties style platform adventure games. It has a graphical user interface, but to bring your game to life you’ll need to learn some code. There’s a good user manual and online tutorials. It’s as good a place to start as any.

TBH, I don’t really know how to use Excel other than the ‘basics’ (input information in a table, eg here’s a list of my Trek model ships). The whole accounting usage thing with it is something I usually run a mile from, even quite simple maths I really struggle with.

 

[Butters]

TBH, I don’t really know how to use Excel other than the ‘basics’ (input information in a table, eg here’s a list of my Trek model ships). The whole accounting usage thing with it is something I usually run a mile from, even quite simple maths I really struggle with.

I knew nothing when I started too, but I did have the challenge of improving the operation and that forced me to learn.

While what you’re wanting to do is possible, if you don’t have a natural inquisition or a pressing context to acquire the skills, it will be a long long slog and possibly a beating to nowhere.

Excel is a good place to start. The inbuilt cell functions are easy and logical enough to learn, and powerful enough for you to see for yourself if programming is for you or not.

I’m in a similar situation, but instead of programming, I’m learning to grow vegetables from a cold start. YouTube is an amazing resource.

 

[Butters]

That’s vague, smug, bragging nonsense. I realise you’ve learnt something – boasting about it doesn’t help me.

Then why ask? You’ve been vague about what you want to learn and why you want to learn it. You’ve demonstrated no interest in trying to learn anything for yourself and you’re frankly rude to any one that offers the help you’ve asked for. It’s not vague, it’s not smug and it’s not bragging, it’s showing you what you can achieve if you can be arsed, which you’re obviously not.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Just a gentle reminder to thread participants to refrain from getting personal, please.

@Galactic Alignment , people are trying to help you. What you choose to do with the information is up to you, of course. As has been said, what you are looking to do is possible, but will require a lot of work, which no one will able to be do for you. I don’t want to shut things down here, in hopes you’re getting information you can use. Please note, however, if this thread goes too far off-track, I will have to close it.

 

[Galactic Alignment]

Just a gentle reminder to thread participants to refrain from getting personal, please.

@Galactic Alignment , people are trying to help you. What you choose to do with the information is up to you, of course. As has been said, what you are looking to do is possible, but will require a lot of work, which no one will able to be do for you. I don’t want to shut things down here, in hopes you’re getting information you can use. Please note, however, if this thread goes too far off-track, I will have to close it.

In the UK, you can’t get funding for equal or lower qualifications than your existing qualifications. So with a degree already I cannot go and take a degree or similar in computer science to be formally taught programming, much as I would like to.

I resent bringing spoken to by a user above as if I am Downs or similar and have inability to learn – I have an existing degree, so I am able to learn. I don’t have a computer science degree, however, and can’t realistically afford to. I wish I had not mentioned the Aspegers element so I would not be spoken down to like I am handicapped or lazy.

 

[DonIago]

I don't think anyone meant to come off that way, and sorry if you felt that way, but I think you may want to assume good faith regardless. If someone says something that doesn't sit right with you, maybe take a few minutes away from the computer before replying?

I'm curious as to what your current degree is (apologies if you said up-thread), and, as others have asked...what you would want to learn and why you would want to learn it with regards to Computer Science? What's your endgame?

FWIW, I likely have a mild case of Asperger's myself, though I've never been formally diagnosed.

 

[Galactic Alignment]

I don't think anyone meant to come off that way, and sorry if you felt that way, but I think you may want to assume good faith regardless. If someone says something that doesn't sit right with you, maybe take a few minutes away from the computer before replying?

I'm curious as to what your current degree is (apologies if you said up-thread), and, as others have asked...what you would want to learn and why you would want to learn it with regards to Computer Science? What's your endgame?

FWIW, I likely have a mild case of Asperger's myself, though I've never been formally diagnosed.

I have a formal diagnosis, wish that I hadn’t, it is life-ruining, it’s now on my NHS records for life, which will be catastrophic.

My existing degree isn’t in a STEM subject, I just want to say it’s not related to science, maths or computers. I’d like to leave the matter there.

I have just been suggested by what passes for free careers advice over here that all Aspergers people are natural computer experts and programmers, so should aim for that. I never contemplated the subject of computer science at university as I noticed the degrees all required A-level maths (and sometimes maths and physics), which I didn’t/don’t have. So it’s only something I hadn’t even vaguely thought of for years.

Essentially, I’m asking if someone like me – no GCSE maths pass, very bad at maths, dyslexic as well – can actually even learn to program. I don’t have any means of funding any courses, FWIW (that’s an obvious thing I would’ve done already).

 

[DonIago]

Well, at the risk of sounding idealistic, I'd like to think anyone can learn anything that they put their mind and time to, but depending on the kind of computer work you'd like to do (which is why your endgame becomes relevant), being weak at math could be a complicating factor. Of course, it may be possible to improve your math skills as well!

I started out in Computer Science in college, but switched over to English Writing (and now works at a bank as a Business Analyst, so...yeah...). I enjoyed learning the fundamentals of coding and algorithms, but Machine/Assembly Language was a killer, and I realized I didn't want to spend my time doing programming when there were other options. However, that was almost 20 years ago, and the world of computers has obviously changed quite a bit since then.

I think knowing what you have a degree in might help us to suggest a future course for you, but if you don't want to discuss it, I won't press the matter.

I think the general traits often associated with Aserpgians are the kinds of thing that may lend themselves well to a computing career, but that's about as meaningful as saying that someone who's very physically fit may go far as an athlete. You need the passion for the subject as well, and it's dopey to say that someone should pursue a career in X because they're broadly Y, without any regard for the specifics of the individual.

I'm an American who knows exceptionally little about the education system across the pond, but I think there must be free courses out there (or buy a book on the subject), so my off-the-cuff suggestion would be to learn what you can about the subject (for free/cheap) enough to figure out where your interests might lie, or if you even have any, and go from there.

 

[Kor]

...
https://medium.freecodecamp.org/600...courses-you-can-start-in-january-3d4b1ed473aa

...
And no, I don’t have thousands of pounds in savings to spend on online courses.

That's actually a list of coursework offered for free reading/viewing by real universities. However, if you want a certificate that officially verifies that you completed the course, then a fee is usually required. Also, the free option might not allow you to submit assignments and quizzes, meaning you won't get feedback. The full versions of the coursework could come out to about $50 USD or £38.50 GBP per month for enrollment. If this is not outside your financial means, it could possibly be a good option, if you want formal credentials that you can list on your CV/resume.

For someone who does not already have a strong STEM background, I think Information Technology may be a better and more accessible option than Computer Science. As others have touched on, applied IT doesn't require advanced mathematics as in CS, or nearly as much of the dense theoretical stuff with formal logic and algorithms. Developing and coding end-user interfaces such as business apps or web sites is a much different matter than working with machine language.

Kor

 

[Butters]

I resent bringing spoken to by a user above as if I am Downs or similar and have inability to learn – I have an existing degree, so I am able to learn. I don’t have a computer science degree, however, and can’t realistically afford to. I wish I had not mentioned the Aspegers element so I would not be spoken down to like I am handicapped or lazy.

I’m sorry if you felt that I was talking down to you. That was far from my intent. You were rude, I took offence, and responded in kind.

I post here with the genuine intention to help you find your way. I’m not mathematically gifted either, I’m a geographer that got sidelined in to IT. I recall my experiences here only in the hope that you can associate with some of it and identify opportunities for yourself that you might have overlooked, but your experiences will be different. For what it’s worth, I’m trying help.

The answer to your question is yes, but understand that it ain’t easy going, and dyslexia can be a barrier. It’s not unusual to spend days looking for a reason why code won’t work and it’s usually a stray comma or something.

I wish you well, you can make it in to programming. It’s a huge field and you only need to know a bit of it. Good luck.

 

[Non Sync]

There are plenty of books on teaching yourself various programming languages. Pick a language and start playing with it. There are open source IDE (integrated development environment) including a free version of Microsoft Visual Studio. The main point is simply to start coding. If you can't afford a computer, then get a Raspberry Pi (~$60 US).

As you get further along, I'd recommend Code Complete by Steve McConnell. He covers the commands and compares them across various languages. More importantly, it provides best practices which means solid code.

 

[DonIago]

^I'd honestly say that the OP should start at a higher level than this, more along the lines of "So, you think you may be interested in pursuing Computer Science and/or Information Technology? Here's what you should know upfront, here's possible applications of such an education...and depending on what you specifically want to do, here's the kinds of things you should start learning..."

 

[Avro Arrow]

If you've never coded before, I think it would be easier to learn the fundamental concepts generically first, such as variables, data types, objects, conditionals, operators, etc. Once you are familiar with the theoretical concepts, that gives you a good foundation to get into specific languages and their individual implementations of the concepts.