Commodore Kirk?
- Thread starter CrazyMatt
- Start date
That's not how it was, though. First lieutenant, second lieutenant etc. were just the order of seniority on board ship, they weren't different ranks. A standard third rate 74 gun ship of the line had lieutenants first through sixth.
Here's how it went:
Code:
NAVY ARMY
Lieutenant Captain
Master & Commander* Major
Captain Lieutenant Colonel
Captain (after 3 years) Colonel
Commodore (temporary rank) Brigadier General
Rear Admiral Major General
Vice Admiral Lieutenant General
Admiral General
*Originally captain "not taking post," later commander.Later, in the 1860s, lieutenants became equal to majors after eight years service, which became the rank of lieutenant commander in 1914. Commanders were bumped to a slot between major and lieutenant colonel. It wasn't till after WW1 that all RN captains were equal to colonels, regardless of seniority, and commander lined up with lieutenant colonel. The rank of mate, later sub-lieutenant, fit in under lieutenant about 1840.
TOS had a rank between ensign and lieutenant, which was seen one time, on Joe Tormolen in "The Naked Time." Though its title was not specified, most people seem to accept it as LTJG.
Nothing about that in TOS, though.
TIL that 18th century British naval ranks were more confusing than I thought.
I wish Rodenberry had gone with his original plan of just using modern day USN/RN ranks & insignia. It's a very straightforward, logical system.
I wish Rodenberry had gone with his original plan of just using modern day USN/RN ranks & insignia. It's a very straightforward, logical system.
Apart from the missing 'three and a half braid' anyway.
The modern USN never used three and a half braid. It always went straight from three to four.
Nor did/does the RN, I merely pointed out that given that they use one and a half, and two and a half (the RAF also has a half braid, roughly corresponds to Acting Ensign) then logically there should also be a three and a half braid. Though few RW naval systems seem to follow this.
Of the NATO navys whose insignia is closest to the RN-style the Deutsche Marine and the Greeks have six "line" ranks in a 1, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4 pattern with either a "WO" or "LDO" braid of 2 + 2x.5 above the Lieutenants but below the Captains; the Belgians & the Danish use RN sleeve braids exactly, but add a 3.5 braid for mid-ranked Captains; and the Norweigns omit the more usual 1.5 & 2.5, but include 3.5; the Turks omit 2.5 but use 3.5.
If "Star Trek: Phase II" had panned out as an ongoing series (three or four seasons), then I could see Kirk gaining Commodore status, while Decker assumed the captaincy. This would have allowed Shatner to "ease out" of a second series gradually to guest star/appearance status.
Well, there's no logic involved, really, just evolutionary changes. The "primal" naval ranks below flag were lieutenant, commander and captain, so that's simple for one, two and three stripes, which is how it originally was. But that's three ranks versus six for the army, so naturally over time things were done to line everything up.
The US Navy used a simple progression of six half-steps from 0.5 to 3.0 for a couple of months in 1869, but someone must have noticed what the Royal Navy was wearing, because USN commanders and captains were quickly bumped up to three and four stripes respectively. Even then it took another dozen or so years for the sub-flag USN stripes to reach their final form.
When we learned that Kirk would be an admiral for ST2, my friends and I envisioned an elaborate setup with him commanding a task force of ships of various types, with Spock and Scotty as ship captains and the other regulars distributed around. I don't remember the details but we had it all mapped out on elementary school scrap paper!
That would have been so cool!
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