That's kind of what I'm referring to, yes. I'll send you a PM with more details.
It has been stated in TNG that humans are not as obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. Going on from that, I don't think that they will be as bothered about aquiring assets by mining and so on. They would live within their means.
I like "The American Way" of life, I would prefer it was still around. I grew up a military brat and have lived in seven countries, visited almost two dozen more. It's good in America, better in fact than a lot of places. Our institutionalized liberties separates us from a great many nations. A Micronesian style future Earth might be more to your taste, while they do have some consumerism, it doesn't dominate their mindset. It's a more steady/slow growth kind of place where the people are more concerned with family life. And they use rocks for money.You're assuming that the American way of life will still be here in 400 years, it may not, you know.
The opposite. Despite the technology, the people remain traditional beings. Picard plays the flute. Riker the trombone. Worf sings opera. Uhura sings romance. Data paints. Sulu fences. Folks come together, marry, make babies. They gather in groups for a drink after work, as people have for thousands of yearsThis is futuristic Science fiction, devoted to how technology will CHANGE people, that we are discussing!
But is it reasonable that if the exploration is successful, they wouldn't do anything with the discoveries? Advance technology would be absorbed, knowledge would be utilized, resources would be exploited, worlds would be colonized, people would be joined with.Hasn't it been stated in ST time and time again, that theirs is a mission of exploration?
I think that they would be VERY scrupulous in making certain that there were no lifeforms, even intelligent grains of salt!
Why? In all of Trek, a planet is considered "lifeless" if it only has lush vegetation and bugoids, snailoids and creepycrawloids. "Life" is defined as large non-sessile animal-analogues...I think that they would be VERY scrupulous in making certain that there were no lifeforms, even intelligent grains of salt!
Obviously, familiarity breeds contempt. The Trek galaxy is so full of life that none of it is considered particularly precious or worth preserving. Rather, colonial parties would aim to exploit preexisting life, for agriculture. Since all that life seems compatible with Earth life, and since OTOH humans have supposedly learned their lessons about transplanting species across the face of Earth, the settling of an already life-infested world would probably go relatively smoothly. The native life would only have to yield where the colonists wanted it to yield - it would not die out catastrophically at the first cough of a careless colonial, nor would it snuff out the colonists and their crops except in the rare and special case.
We would be extremely scrupulous, in our universe. They would not, in their supposedly very different universe, and visibly are not.
Timo Saloniemi
Time and again, it has been stated in ST that ALL life is precious!
They have food synthesisers.
They are vegetarian.
So essentially, we're not "fans enough" for you because we aren't as "progressive" as you?
It's just amazing to me that people watch this show and come to the conclusion that people will be exactly the same in 400 years time, they will just have better ways of killing people.
Not the same, just similar.It's just amazing to me that people watch this show and come to the conclusion that people will be exactly the same in 400 years time, they will just have better ways of killing people.
Nerys, I don't think that people will leave Earth because they are disaffected. It's a relative paradise, and very tolerant. I direct you to the first opening words of every TOS and TNG episode. Listen to them. People will leave Earth, because they want to EXPLORE,LEARN, and EVOLVE, the same reason why people go to China on holiday and to Peru. Because it's DIFFERENT. At least, some people do. They won't go to enforce their way of living on others.
As to man not changing, he does. Even genetically, over the next 400 years, he will be different to us. Less like an ape. Things will change, but there will be some things that stay the same. You haven't addressed the things that will change. You talk as though 24th century man will be just like 20th, but with bigger and better bombs! I think not. We don't stick people in gibbets, now, 500 years ago we did. Right from the beginning of ST, right from the Cage, it's been stated that man will change, and he is pitted against beings who are even more changed, in order to learn. This is what SF is about.
So essentially, we're not "fans enough" for you because we aren't as "progressive" as you?
Heh, yeah, because nothing says progressive like "Anyone who sees the same show but comes to a different conclusion than I do is inherently wrong."
Might not be what he was intending, but sure as hell what came out.
In Washington State the last time we hanged someone was sixteen years ago (killed three women). Kill another man with poison eight years ago (only killed one woman).Imagine if you had to go to the local towncentre and see a thief or a malcontent's body in a gibbet, as a warning! We did that 500 years ago. We don't now.
I think that Kirk's ship had food synthesizers (or fabricators) solely for reasons to do with storage and room aboard the Enterprise. The Enterprise D had replicators for basically the same reason. Not because they were better (tastier) or cheaper (energy), but because they were easier than the alternatives. Robert Picard grows grapes for wine, if the wine out of replicators was identical to "real" wine there would be no market for Chateau Picard. If real wine tastes better than replicated wine, then we can extrapolate that real food tastes better than replicated food.They do fish, but there are not vast amounts of animals living in misery and being slaughtered, as there are now. They don't need to, they have food synthesizers.
Penta raises some interesting ideas, but I take exception to a few of them.
4. The Federation announces a major resettlement program, using various economic methods (whatever the 24th Century version of a subsidy or tax break is) for those willing to resettle on the new world. Upon arrival, they find the planet already protected, with basic utilities ready, and quickly settle.
Breaking from the narrative, I'd ask you all to consider that a geopolitical entity as large as the Federation, assuming it maintains a tiny rate of natural population increase, might still expand naturally by billions upon billions of sentients every year. A planet could conceivably go from first being discovered by the Federation to a fully industrialized world of billions in a few years.
Is that the norm? Perhaps not. Probably not. But it's certainly possible and in some cases, perhaps desirable.
At the end of one episode of DS9, Ben Sisko is sitting in the alley behind his father's restaurant. Sisko is using a scrub brush to clean the filth off of shell fish. If you don't clean them first, the filth get in the boil water and when the shells open, gets on the meat. Why would anyone replicate dirty shell fish that needed to be cleaned?
Daddy Sisko serves meat in his restaurant.
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In Washington State the last time we hanged someone was sixteen years ago (killed three women). Kill another man with poison eight years ago (only killed one woman).Imagine if you had to go to the local towncentre and see a thief or a malcontent's body in a gibbet, as a warning! We did that 500 years ago. We don't now.
I think that Kirk's ship had food synthesizers (or fabricators) solely for reasons to do with storage and room aboard the Enterprise. The Enterprise D had replicators for basically the same reason. Not because they were better (tastier) or cheaper (energy), but because they were easier than the alternatives. Robert Picard grows grapes for wine, if the wine out of replicators was identical to "real" wine there would be no market for Chateau Picard. If real wine tastes better than replicated wine, then we can extrapolate that real food tastes better than replicated food.They do fish, but there are not vast amounts of animals living in misery and being slaughtered, as there are now. They don't need to, they have food synthesizers.
In the 24th century I believe that crops are still grown, animals raised, fish (shellfish) gathered. Natural food constitutes the majority of food consumed on Earth. I can see the 24th century knowledge and technology producing food with less resources, can also see the oceans being husbanded to extract more food than nature provides today. When a rare replicator is present in someone's home, they are like microwave ovens. A convenience that produces bad food.
Farmers and ranchers obtain tremendous satisfaction and pride from what they do. My family in Brazil has been working the same farm land for 160 years. When my uncle bought his commercial fishing boat it was one of the happiest day of his life.
Cheapjack, would your future take that away?
People need to feel fulfillment in their existence. Whether it's serving in Starfleet, growing food or building a colony, they expend effort and experience a sense of accomplishment at the results. They did that.
They didn't just calmly sitting a couple of feet away from their replicator waiting for the next hand out.
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