He's not a shell of himself. It's all still in there, and comes out over the course of the season.
Spoilers Coda: Book 3: Oblivion's Gate by David Mack Review Thread
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I gave this a rating of above average. There is a lot to love about what is in Oblivion's Gate, and what keeps it from the outstanding mark is that there were a lot of moving parts and tech speak in Part 2 (of this book, not meaning The Ashes of Tomorrow) to reach what is basically a foregone conclusion.
Even when I know they are coming, it is still so satisfying to see good guy reinforcements appear (Saavik's group, Riker after resurfacing).
Wesley Crusher fans like myself got a great use of the character in Coda, easily his best appearance since A Time to Be Born/Die and The Body Electric.
Coda feels to me like a send-off for TNG and DS9. It incorporates the post-series and spin-off books to a certain degree, but it focuses on the core TV characters, especially those we have gotten attached to the earliest. Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker took a similar approach in connecting to all of the saga movies but mostly the first three to be made, so it makes sense that I would appreciate both Coda and Rise's sensibilities.
One of the big takeaways I got from Coda was the importance of trying to make a positive difference and making the most of the time you are given. All of the characters were doomed from the start, just like we will all have a death one day (though presumably not all in the same week like everyone in Oblivion's Gate). Whether they went out early or late or in a random way did not matter so much as the striving to help others through their actions and service.
To compare this trilogy to Marvel comics, I liken it to a mixture of What If? and The End issues. They stand outside the normal course of storytelling, allowing the creators to take chances and make choices that they might not if they had to continue it later. The beauty of that is that it is just one possible outcome. Benny Russell (or fanfic writers) can choose to disregard the undoing of the First Splinter timeline and imagine the continuing story threads resolving in whatever ways they want to.
I still have a lot of thoughts and am curious to hear more from the authors and readers as the days go on. I will end with a shout-out to a couple of things I really enjoyed in the conclusion: Data telling Geordi that he loves him, too, and the use of Anij near the end.
Even when I know they are coming, it is still so satisfying to see good guy reinforcements appear (Saavik's group, Riker after resurfacing).
Wesley Crusher fans like myself got a great use of the character in Coda, easily his best appearance since A Time to Be Born/Die and The Body Electric.
Coda feels to me like a send-off for TNG and DS9. It incorporates the post-series and spin-off books to a certain degree, but it focuses on the core TV characters, especially those we have gotten attached to the earliest. Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker took a similar approach in connecting to all of the saga movies but mostly the first three to be made, so it makes sense that I would appreciate both Coda and Rise's sensibilities.
One of the big takeaways I got from Coda was the importance of trying to make a positive difference and making the most of the time you are given. All of the characters were doomed from the start, just like we will all have a death one day (though presumably not all in the same week like everyone in Oblivion's Gate). Whether they went out early or late or in a random way did not matter so much as the striving to help others through their actions and service.
To compare this trilogy to Marvel comics, I liken it to a mixture of What If? and The End issues. They stand outside the normal course of storytelling, allowing the creators to take chances and make choices that they might not if they had to continue it later. The beauty of that is that it is just one possible outcome. Benny Russell (or fanfic writers) can choose to disregard the undoing of the First Splinter timeline and imagine the continuing story threads resolving in whatever ways they want to.
I still have a lot of thoughts and am curious to hear more from the authors and readers as the days go on. I will end with a shout-out to a couple of things I really enjoyed in the conclusion: Data telling Geordi that he loves him, too, and the use of Anij near the end.
I, too, had a mixed reaction to the first two seasons (very unfavorable Re: Section 31, and particularly so with the gratuitous eye-scream), but thoroughly enjoyed the third. And I think most of the "rather pointless Georgiou stuff" had something to do with removing her from DSC, and setting the stage for a Georgiou spin-off of some sort, set in a time where she can survive.
I look forward to DSC season 4 with a worm on my tongue.
I am glad you feel like that is the case, sadly for me, I don't agree.
Which is exactly what made it pointless. There was no reason to bring Georgiou into the future in the first place if the main thing they intended to do with her was explain why she couldn't stay there. It left her with no meaningful role to play in the season, and her presence was mostly just an intrusion and an interruption. They could've just had her beam off at the end of season 2, and they would've had more time free to devote to new business instead of an extended wrap-up of old business. Part of why season 4 is so enjoyable is that it's finally made a clean break from the baggage of the first two seasons' bad ideas.
For me, previous Star Trek series really started flying around seasons 3 and 4 (with the possible exception of ENT), so I have high hopes for season 4 of Discovery.
This is a criticism that really strikes at the core of my own feelings about this trilogy. The disregarding and/or repeating of previous plot points made it feel like this was a mini-series of its own continuity (like the DS9 Millennium miniseries) instead of a continuation of what came before it. Maybe with that in mind, I would've been able to enjoy Coda more, and I imagine that if/when I re-read Coda in the future, I'll likely be able to appreciate it more for what it was instead of focusing on what I wanted it to be.
It would be easy for me to hate these books if they were badly written. They weren't; they just weren't what I wanted. That can't be the fault of the authors, but it's also not something that I can escape when expressing my thoughts about the series.
(One final note: Ironically, one of the things I've enjoyed about reading this trilogy is reading your critiques afterward, @Thrawn. Your perspective is one of passion for the universe, yet you don't diminish other perspectives when engaging with criticisms of your criticism. It's a refreshing thing to read when so much of online criticism is the Reddit-esque "This is bad and the people who wrote it are idiotic amateurs who don't understand Star Trek and the people who like it are morons who don't understand Star Trek and the only person who understands Star Trek is me and that's because Star Trek is solely about pleasing me."
I don't necessarily always agree with your criticisms, but they always add dimension to my own thoughts. So, I just wanted to point that out and say I appreciate your posts.)
(Context for this posting: I'm just over the halfway mark in this novel.)
Much of what Thrawn has said has validated my sense of what has been missing in these novels. Simultaneously, I've also agreed with a number of assertions VESATI has made; for example, sitting down with the authors and exploring how they came to the narrative decisions they made vis-a-vis the plot and characters.
The three novels are not terrible or even bad, but they are not what I had hoped for and are not leaving me feeling as I had hoped they would when news broke that they were afoot. From the outset, I fully expected everyone to die. The fact of characters’ deaths is the least disappointing part of these novels; in fact, not disappointing at all, just sad.
A few items of note for me (and Thrawn enumerated many of these):
#1 Thrawn referenced someone else who earlier posted that Treklit was my Trek. I, too, recall someone posting this or something close to this. Looking back on twenty years of narrative (and now having finally seen all of Discovery seasons 1 through 3 and Picard season 1), the statement that most fully captures my experience is that Treklit (meaning narratives starting in 2376 and moving through DS9, VOY--written by Beyer--TNG, TTN, Klingon Empire/IKS Gorkon, A Time To..., Articles of the Federation, Destiny, Typhon Pact, The Fall, Prey, Section 31) came to reflect a more fully realized representation of the world of Trek and its possibilities than the limits of televised Trek could allow or achieve.
No disrespect meant or implied toward televised Trek. DS9 is far and away my favorite series, but if I consider Treklit a series as well, then, there is no contest: Treklit is the most comprehensively satisfying "series" of narrative Trek. And that is wholly due to the time and efforts and talents of all the authors over the past twenty years who not only filled out and deepened the universe from the on-screen template provided but cleaned up and made better use of televised/scripted messes and missteps.
#2 Given the above assertion and again with 1/6 of the trilogy yet to read, I'd vote for a complete rethink of Titan's role and Riker's actions. I'd rather have had Vale and crew working with the others in lieu of being trapped by a Riker with temporal multiple personality disorder. For me, all of those on Titan have felt "out of the action" as it were. (And I’m a psychologist. I’m fascinated by the concept of TMPD but would still vote for a different course for Titan and crew.)
#3 I would trade a lot of the time spent setting up the problem in the first novel, including some of the time spent with the Wesleys, the Devidians and Nagas and avatars, all of the time spent with Juel Ducane in the future, as well as some of the time spent in the MU and with its characters in the First Splinter U, and, yes, some or much of the time spent with Jean-Luc throughout all three novels, for more time spent with other Treklit characters and Treklit creations. Thrawn lists a bunch of great examples from over the past twenty years in Treklit that could fill those pages. I'll underscore one of his suggestions that really grabbed me and which I believe would have reflected my assertion in #1 above: a narrative that focused on the Khitomer Accord and Typhon Pact governments and their leaders (even the Dominion) working together (or, in some cases, deliberately and decidedly not) to understand what is happening and then employing the wide cast of characters, both those born on screen and born in the lit, to address the threat posed by the Devidians and to respond to the reaction from sentients throughout the four quadrants as the results of the Devidians plan come to fruition and are witnessed by the galaxy at large.
When I think of specific examples, I invariably am inspired by much of the events of Destiny, The Fall, and Prey, all of which represent the fullness that Treklit accomplished. I could go on ad infinitum with ideas for characters to participate or participate differently than the novels rendered (Thirishar, Pulaski, Kassidy, First Minister Asarem Wadeen, Ambassador Spock on Romulus, Chancellor Martok, etc.)
#4 As for Voyager, though not stated, I figure that the same fate awaits them. They reside in the First Splinter U. Maybe a scene involving Tom and B'Elanna that showed their distress at their inability to communicate with their Voyager family so far away at such a critical moment for everyone?
#5 Finally, I'm glad Julian is up and about. However, Ezri's death precipitating this—at least portrayed as it was—did not work for me. I'm not sure what would have. Harkening back to Una McCormack's stellar delivery in Enigma Tales, I think I'd have been happy with simply a story focused on a painful return to reality for Julian amid Garak's love and friendship, Bashir coming to terms with the pain, and sometimes horrendous tragedies, of mere existence (kinda like the last few years for most everyone on planet Earth), and how he and Garak come to face the end of everything with them finally verbalizing some of their complicated feelings for each other and what might have been.
Much of what Thrawn has said has validated my sense of what has been missing in these novels. Simultaneously, I've also agreed with a number of assertions VESATI has made; for example, sitting down with the authors and exploring how they came to the narrative decisions they made vis-a-vis the plot and characters.
The three novels are not terrible or even bad, but they are not what I had hoped for and are not leaving me feeling as I had hoped they would when news broke that they were afoot. From the outset, I fully expected everyone to die. The fact of characters’ deaths is the least disappointing part of these novels; in fact, not disappointing at all, just sad.
A few items of note for me (and Thrawn enumerated many of these):
#1 Thrawn referenced someone else who earlier posted that Treklit was my Trek. I, too, recall someone posting this or something close to this. Looking back on twenty years of narrative (and now having finally seen all of Discovery seasons 1 through 3 and Picard season 1), the statement that most fully captures my experience is that Treklit (meaning narratives starting in 2376 and moving through DS9, VOY--written by Beyer--TNG, TTN, Klingon Empire/IKS Gorkon, A Time To..., Articles of the Federation, Destiny, Typhon Pact, The Fall, Prey, Section 31) came to reflect a more fully realized representation of the world of Trek and its possibilities than the limits of televised Trek could allow or achieve.
No disrespect meant or implied toward televised Trek. DS9 is far and away my favorite series, but if I consider Treklit a series as well, then, there is no contest: Treklit is the most comprehensively satisfying "series" of narrative Trek. And that is wholly due to the time and efforts and talents of all the authors over the past twenty years who not only filled out and deepened the universe from the on-screen template provided but cleaned up and made better use of televised/scripted messes and missteps.
#2 Given the above assertion and again with 1/6 of the trilogy yet to read, I'd vote for a complete rethink of Titan's role and Riker's actions. I'd rather have had Vale and crew working with the others in lieu of being trapped by a Riker with temporal multiple personality disorder. For me, all of those on Titan have felt "out of the action" as it were. (And I’m a psychologist. I’m fascinated by the concept of TMPD but would still vote for a different course for Titan and crew.)
#3 I would trade a lot of the time spent setting up the problem in the first novel, including some of the time spent with the Wesleys, the Devidians and Nagas and avatars, all of the time spent with Juel Ducane in the future, as well as some of the time spent in the MU and with its characters in the First Splinter U, and, yes, some or much of the time spent with Jean-Luc throughout all three novels, for more time spent with other Treklit characters and Treklit creations. Thrawn lists a bunch of great examples from over the past twenty years in Treklit that could fill those pages. I'll underscore one of his suggestions that really grabbed me and which I believe would have reflected my assertion in #1 above: a narrative that focused on the Khitomer Accord and Typhon Pact governments and their leaders (even the Dominion) working together (or, in some cases, deliberately and decidedly not) to understand what is happening and then employing the wide cast of characters, both those born on screen and born in the lit, to address the threat posed by the Devidians and to respond to the reaction from sentients throughout the four quadrants as the results of the Devidians plan come to fruition and are witnessed by the galaxy at large.
When I think of specific examples, I invariably am inspired by much of the events of Destiny, The Fall, and Prey, all of which represent the fullness that Treklit accomplished. I could go on ad infinitum with ideas for characters to participate or participate differently than the novels rendered (Thirishar, Pulaski, Kassidy, First Minister Asarem Wadeen, Ambassador Spock on Romulus, Chancellor Martok, etc.)
#4 As for Voyager, though not stated, I figure that the same fate awaits them. They reside in the First Splinter U. Maybe a scene involving Tom and B'Elanna that showed their distress at their inability to communicate with their Voyager family so far away at such a critical moment for everyone?
#5 Finally, I'm glad Julian is up and about. However, Ezri's death precipitating this—at least portrayed as it was—did not work for me. I'm not sure what would have. Harkening back to Una McCormack's stellar delivery in Enigma Tales, I think I'd have been happy with simply a story focused on a painful return to reality for Julian amid Garak's love and friendship, Bashir coming to terms with the pain, and sometimes horrendous tragedies, of mere existence (kinda like the last few years for most everyone on planet Earth), and how he and Garak come to face the end of everything with them finally verbalizing some of their complicated feelings for each other and what might have been.
I'm inclined to agree with your view on Riker and Titan's role early on.
I recall that was my note in my truncated review of the first book, specifically that Riker needed to get his head out of his ass.
On the one hand, I can see it as what it is, a narrative device to create another antagonist (with added effect because it's one of our beloved core cast), but it did make the rest of the Titan crew look a little... befuddled and toothless.
I'll admit that having finished all three books, I've done what I hatefully always do on big stories like this: going back and rewriting parts of it in my head as if I were an actual author, tying my edits in to the rest of the story and seeing how they fit.
No matter how I rewrite bits of it in my head, it always seems to come up flat somewhere else.
I do agree with Thrawn that in comparing the Coda trilogy to the Destiny trilogy, Destiny feels more "matured", as if it had additional edits, reviews and revisions before being finally published for the unwashed huddled masses to consume.
I don't cite this as a criticism of the Coda trilogy, but more of a question for the authors on whether or not there was a definite difference on the timeline between writing and publishing the Destiny trilogy and the Coda trilogy.
For my part, if the Destiny trilogy had more time for revisions before publishing than the Coda trilogy did, I regard it as the difference between blue label and black label scotch whiskey.
I'll gladly drink either one.
Finally got my copy Saturday. Finished it today. I was reminded of a t-shirt I saw: "2020-The Movie: Screenplay by Stephen King Directed by Quentin Tarentino". BTW, caught the "Dark Mirror" reference. No one else has mentioned it in the 8 pages of this thread I've read so far, so I thought I would.
Number 5 was really annoying for me… blink and you’ll miss it, and it is implied that he was already a little bit on his way back to health, but it happened off camera. What makes it particularly annoying is there is a solution right there in the story being told, that could have made more sense and been more effective than ‘oh I’m awake, off to go fight something now’. Simply have *another* Ezri die for *another* Bashir. Have the whole multidimensional memory thing that fucked up Riker happen to Bashir, but Bashir being Bashir he realises what is going on. Then he wakes up, then Ezri (not dead at the end of book one in this universe) comes to him and tells him how she *nearly* died to the same thing. Boom. Call to action for the good doctor, without quite so nihilist a set up.
There’s lots of little tucks and turns like this, that are so almost there in the first two books (I am still reticent about actually reading this third one properly, after the first two enthused me so very little.) but zigged when they should have zagged.
Basically, should have just had the litverse forced into doing a metaphorical server rollback, almost like making the last x years into almost a prolonged ‘all good things’ for the TV characters, and definitely focused on someone, anyone, other than Picard (and Data) because TNG was an ensemble show, and he has his show now (with added Data)
The DS9 crew, along with the lit characters, deserved better. But to be fair… this goes further back anyway.
This series just confirms we’ve been treading water a while, and my misgivings about the direction of this capstone trilogy really crystallised when we spent a while recreating scenes from Star Trek III instead of telling a story.
If you're referring to Saavik's mention of other alternate realities where the Terran empire still existed, I also thought that was a quiet nod to Dark Mirror (still one of my favorite older TNG novels), but I wasn't certain.
If that's the reference you're talking about, I'm glad it wasn't just me who thought so.
Guess that depends on the plans for her. If she was meant to return to the 23rd century, you're right. But it could also be that the Section 31 show is set in another era. Maybe further back in the past or later (24th century for example).
All that is known is that she needed to travel to a time before the 32nd century, when the prime and the mirror universe were still aligned.
None of that matters, because the problem is that her storyline in DSC season 3 had nothing to do with DSC season 3. It was all setup for something else. No matter what that something else is, it was still a distraction from the season's own storyline rather than something that contributed meaningfully to it. That's my point. Having her there for no other purpose than to set up her spinoff just got in the way of DSC's own storylines. So now that she's gone, DSC is freer to tell its own organic narrative without such artificial intrusions, and that's to season 4's benefit.
Yes, but that was a cool way to get rid of her.
of course you mean "Directed by David Lynch with Special Guest Director Quentin Tarantino"
Just finished the book. I enjoyed it, but I admit that I was quite confused by a lot of it.
I didn't have a good understanding of what caused the First Splinter or how their plan undid any of it. Like okay, so the Borg planet shot some weapon at the Enterprise-E as it emerged from the past? But wouldn't they be emerging to a non-Borg timeline? And what was that weapon? I'm not saying this wasn't explained, but it just wasn't explained in a way that made sense to me. I went along for the ride hoping it would get restated by other characters in ways that I'd understand, but that never really happened. And since I didn't get how it started, I really could not tell you how Kira's role in the Mirror Wormhole mattered or what the Orb of Time did.
Adding to that, some of what happened later in the book made me think that things were going to turn out differently. For example, I got the sense from Riker, after his mind was restored, and Wesley, when he was captured, that this plan of Picard's was actually the wrong way to solve this. The alt-Riker seemed to indicate it had been tried before and didn't work. Adding in that prelude, I thought Riker or Wesley were going to stop Picard and show him a better way, a way that allowed the First Splinter to continue on, though forever separate (and probably never to be revisited in novels). But instead everything just continued as planned. That did kind of decrease my enjoyment a bit because I was anticipating some 11th hour shift or twist.
Overall a decent finale to this decades-long saga we've all been enjoying. I'm sad to see it end. It's unlikely I'll read much Star Trek literature in the future. The fact that these books were able to carry on the continuity of the characters and take them in interesting directions were their primary appeal for me. I'd be happy to read another New Frontier novel if that series is ever allowed to continue. Otherwise, though, this is very much an ending for me too.
I didn't have a good understanding of what caused the First Splinter or how their plan undid any of it. Like okay, so the Borg planet shot some weapon at the Enterprise-E as it emerged from the past? But wouldn't they be emerging to a non-Borg timeline? And what was that weapon? I'm not saying this wasn't explained, but it just wasn't explained in a way that made sense to me. I went along for the ride hoping it would get restated by other characters in ways that I'd understand, but that never really happened. And since I didn't get how it started, I really could not tell you how Kira's role in the Mirror Wormhole mattered or what the Orb of Time did.
Adding to that, some of what happened later in the book made me think that things were going to turn out differently. For example, I got the sense from Riker, after his mind was restored, and Wesley, when he was captured, that this plan of Picard's was actually the wrong way to solve this. The alt-Riker seemed to indicate it had been tried before and didn't work. Adding in that prelude, I thought Riker or Wesley were going to stop Picard and show him a better way, a way that allowed the First Splinter to continue on, though forever separate (and probably never to be revisited in novels). But instead everything just continued as planned. That did kind of decrease my enjoyment a bit because I was anticipating some 11th hour shift or twist.
Overall a decent finale to this decades-long saga we've all been enjoying. I'm sad to see it end. It's unlikely I'll read much Star Trek literature in the future. The fact that these books were able to carry on the continuity of the characters and take them in interesting directions were their primary appeal for me. I'd be happy to read another New Frontier novel if that series is ever allowed to continue. Otherwise, though, this is very much an ending for me too.
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