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Spoilers Coda: Book 3: Oblivion's Gate by David Mack Review Thread

Rate Coda: Book 3: Oblivion's Gate

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One question: Is there a subtle implication there that the Jean Luc Picard of PIC might have acted out of character due to some mild temporal psychosis? Thinking about it this morning, that's the vibe I get. (I really loathe what they did to the character in the events before the premiere, but that explanation would help me reconcile it quite a bit.)
 
I am grateful to these authors for caring as much (if not more) about these characters and this continuity that I've invested so much time and emotion into for the past 20 years that they wrote this trilogy as a send-off.
I'm so glad you feel like this is a true statement, I truly am - no sarcasm. It's awesome to feel like your investment has been respected and validated; I'm glad you got what you were looking for from Coda.

For me, the issue is which characters and which continuity they focused on. Whether it was a result of constraints they were given, their own authorial choices, or both, this was emphatically not a tribute to or culmination of prior LitVerse works. Almost everything in this book, Devidians included, built from canon storylines and focused on canon characters. Perhaps these authors all got into writing TrekLit in the first place because they loved the TV shows and the TV show characters, and so given a chance they went back to that wellspring and said a fond farewell to the things they loved in the first place. But, Mirror Universe and Sam Bowers aside, they evidently didn't make any attempt to do so for the TrekLit characters and storylines I've loved so much.

They clearly made the call that focusing on, eg, fond farewells between Geordi and Data would have much more resonance / import than, oh I don't know, giving Torvig a chance to shine. And to be fair to them, it seems like they made the right choice for a lot of readers - most people in here seem basically happy with the emphasis on TV show characters and storylines, to the exclusion of almost anything that made TrekLit itself unique or exciting. It's not super surprising that most readers of TrekLit were fans first of the TV shows that TrekLit was written to tie into, I guess.

But, as someone else said earlier in the thread, TrekLit WAS my Trek. TNG is the only Trek show I've watched in its entirety; I was a fairly casual fan before I read Avatar and got totally sucked in to the books. It just sucks to get to the end and have the whole sense of the books as a storytelling achievement all their own be undercut for a return to focus on pure tie-in writing by some of the very authors that created a separate thing worthy of standing on its own in the first place.

If TrekLit really was as good as onscreen Trek (and for my money, it was often better - my list of personal TrekLit highlights towards the end of my review is all more meaningful to me than anything onscreen) then it was worth appreciating on its own merits, not just as a chance to give the TV show leads chances for tearful goodbyes, culminating in a long elegy for the one character who still literally has a canon TV show named after him.

I'll read about Geordi and Data and Picard again. I'll never get another chance to read a new story about Torvig, or Liam O'Donnell, or Prynn Tenmei, or Lonnoc Kediar, or Mackenzie Calhoun (in all likelihood), or this version of the Breen, or the Tzenkethi, or any of those other things on that long list of missed opportunities I wrote.

It's clear to me that these authors loved Data. I wish they loved the characters they came up with just as much, because I do.
 
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I'm so glad you feel like this is a true statement, I truly am - no sarcasm. It's awesome to feel like your investment has been respected and validated; I'm glad you got what you were looking for from Coda.

For me, the issue is which characters and which continuity they focused on. Whether it was a result of constraints they were given, their own authorial choices, or both, this was emphatically not a tribute to or culmination of prior LitVerse works. Almost everything in this book, Devidians included, built from canon storylines and focused on canon characters. Perhaps these authors all got into writing TrekLit in the first place because they loved the TV shows and the TV show characters, and so given a chance they went back to that wellspring and said a fond farewell to the things they loved in the first place. But, Mirror Universe and Sam Bowers aside, they evidently didn't make any attempt to do so for the TrekLit characters and storylines I've loved so much.

They clearly made the call that focusing on, eg, fond farewells between Geordi and Data would have much more resonance / import than, oh I don't know, giving Torvig a chance to shine. And to be fair to them, it seems like they made the right choice for a lot of readers - most people in here seem basically happy with the emphasis on TV show characters and storylines, to the exclusion of almost anything that made TrekLit itself unique or exciting. It's not super surprising that most readers of TrekLit were fans first of the TV shows that TrekLit was written to tie into, I guess.

But, as someone else said earlier in the thread, TrekLit WAS my Trek. TNG is the only Trek show I've watched in its entirety; I was a fairly casual fan before I read Avatar and got totally sucked in to the books. It just sucks to get to the end and have the whole sense of the books as a storytelling achievement all their own be undercut for a return to focus on pure tie-in writing by some of the very authors that created a separate thing worthy of standing on its own in the first place.

If TrekLit really was as good as onscreen Trek (and for my money, it was often better - my list of personal TrekLit highlights towards the end of my review is all more meaningful to me than anything onscreen) then it was worth appreciating on its own merits, not just as a chance to give the TV show leads chances for tearful goodbyes, culminating in a long elegy for the one character who still literally has a canon TV show named after him.

I'll read about Geordi and Data and Picard again. I'll never get another chance to read a new story about Torvig, or Liam O'Donnell, or Prynn Tenmei, or Lonnoc Kediar, or Mackenzie Calhoun (in all likelihood), or this version of the Breen, or the Tzenkethi, or any of those other things on that long list of missed opportunities I wrote.

It's clear to me that these authors loved Data. I wish they loved the characters they came up with just as much, because I do.

I'll grant you that it felt as if some of the Litverse-specific characters didn't receive as much attention as the non-Litverse-specific characters did, but I see that as more a result of the fact that the Litverse characters are and for the most part always have been supplemental to the ongoing storylines of the characters we followed from the television and films.

Not exclusively, mind you, but certainly Litverse-specific characters were introduced into storylines that centered around the "core cast".

We saw this a LOT in the TNG Litverse storylines, where new senior officers on the Enterprise seemed to change out with astonishing frequency, while the core cast stayed largely the same.

I think, considering that there was a LOT to pack into these three books, the authors did a good job at trying to hold some kind of balance between Litverse-specific elements and core cast.

Take, for example, the fact that in book two, the Enterprise was abandoned at Spacedock so that the Aventine could escape. The Aventine (a purely Litverse creation, as well as one of my favorite ships) ended up being the "hero ship" for a great deal of that book.

In book three, the hero ships were almost exclusively Litverse creations (Titan and the MU jaunt ships).

Some of the Litverse character deaths in book three felt almost glanced over, but David Mack did make the point to include them. My heart hurt for Torvig's death, and I wanted to cry with Xin over Melora's death.

If anything, I felt more remorseful that characters like Tuvok, Tom, and B'Elanna seemed almost neglected (and these were arguably older and more core cast).
As heartbreaking as it would have been, I would have liked to have known that Tom, B'Elanna, and Miral were together when the end came, or that Tuvok was able to share a distinctly un-Vulcan moment of grief with his wife.

The Mirror Universe that occupied a good third of book three was almost entirely the Mirror Universe crafted by the Litverse in the past decade.

All that said, everyone of us coming to these last three books are almost certainly going to respond differently to the ending of a Star Trek continuity that (at least for me) is older than than the TV or movie continuity that it splintered from.

I won't say that it ended it for me satisfactorily, but I also acknowledge that ending the Litverse satisfactorily for me was NEVER really a possibility.
The authors had a damn-near insurmountable hill to climb with this trilogy, and they were never going to please everyone with it, but they brought their talents to it in a way that I genuinely respect.

It ended. It was awful, but I knew that if these characters I love had to go to their end, I'd follow with them.
 
Yeah, for sure, I'm glad you felt like that balance was right.

I don't really care that certain spaceships appeared if the characters on those spaceships didn't get any narrative attention or weight, and the Mirror Universe is possibly the most incidental corner of TrekLit - I agree that was a TrekLit creation, but why did we care about that more than eg anyone on the Titan? Titan spent two whole books spinning its wheels; there really wasn't space to put a story in there that actually gave Torvig and Melora and Xin and (while we're at it, you have a point) Tuvok something valuable to do?

The weird thing is that Destiny, for example, DID that - Destiny had that moment for Tuvok, and for Melora and Xin, etc. Nothing was wasted in that trilogy. I'm not annoyed that they didn't get to EVERYTHING, I'm annoyed that they didn't get to ANYTHING (aside from the Mirror Universe and Sam Bowers, neither of whom feel to me like particularly important TrekLit accomplishments) while spending so much time in blind alleys and repetitive fights.

But I'm not trying to convince you I'm right; I'm glad it (largely) worked for you. No accounting for taste. The stuff I was looking for wasn't there.
 
I'll never get another chance to read a new story about Torvig, or Liam O'Donnell, or Prynn Tenmei, or Lonnoc Kediar, or Mackenzie Calhoun (in all likelihood), or this version of the Breen, or the Tzenkethi, or any of those other things on that long list of missed opportunities I wrote.
Why not? They aren't unique to the First Splinter; they could even turn up in canon (as indeed, a few things introduced in TrekLit have already done).
Actually, the novel establishes that the mirror and not-mirror universes are definitely not diverging timelines, but a matched set that makes up one single timeline, which makes a lot more sense than the theory that there was a specific divergence at some point.
I don't see "Matched set" and "specific divergence" as being mutually exclusive.

I've asserted many times that "Requiem for a Martian" was the point of divergence: in the Prime Universe, it was a tasteless hoax, perpetrated by a small number of wise-asses, while in the Mirror Universe, it was a real script that was produced and aired, permanently discrediting Star Trek and demoralized everybody who had taken inspiration from it, allowing political reactionaries to destroy every bit of political, economic, and social progress made since President Roosevelt (that's President Theodore Roosevelt) took office. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it until and unless we get a canon backstory for the existence of the Mirror Universe.
 
...and the limitations imposed on them by CBS (i.e. "don't involve Voyager or the Delta Quadrant").

Is that a fact in evidence? I haven't kept up with the interviews the authors have done -- I read one of Dave's, and that was it -- but did one of them say explicitly that CBS said, "No Voyager?" Or is this an assumption because there's virtually no Voyager in the trilogy, just Tom, B'Elanna, and Tuvok in their small roles?
 
Is that a fact in evidence? I haven't kept up with the interviews the authors have done -- I read one of Dave's, and that was it -- but did one of them say explicitly that CBS said, "No Voyager?" Or is this an assumption because there's virtually no Voyager in the trilogy, just Tom, B'Elanna, and Tuvok in their small roles?
My assumption has been that Beyer was allowed to end the Voyager series on her own terms, and including most of the characters beyond the two we got would have undermined/undone that.
 
I don't really care that certain spaceships appeared if the characters on those spaceships didn't get any narrative attention or weight, and the Mirror Universe is possibly the most incidental corner of TrekLit - I agree that was a TrekLit creation, but why did we care about that more than eg anyone on the Titan? Titan spent two whole books spinning its wheels; there really wasn't space to put a story in there that actually gave Torvig and Melora and Xin and (while we're at it, you have a point) Tuvok something valuable to do?

The Titan story has several problems - it's simply too long and too repetitive (a theme in this trilogy) - it also in various parts simply doesn't ring true. To start with - Riker does everything but start chewing the carpet and yet people are amazingly slow to react to it. When they do start to react to it - Tuvok in particular is like a shop dummy who passively observes but does nothing in a way that simply does not match the canon character.

The resolution to this plot is equally odd - with a convoluted scheme to get Riker to assault another officer so they can invoke sub-section a7 of paragraph b of document J9.

Except it's bollocks - the Universe is melting around them, Starfleet command and the Federation government has gone up in dust. The end could be hours away. Someone would just phase him and take it from there! Absolutely none of it feels real.
 
Yeah. That's Part 2 of why I'm so frustrated. If all that stuff I wanted was missing but something really wonderful was in its place, maybe it's fine. But this trilogy wasted SO MUCH SPACE on repetitive, boring blind alleys, identical fight scenes, and cameos that added nothing to the narrative. I'd guess fully 50% of the wordcount of this trilogy was on stuff that didn't end up either satisfying in its own right or mattering to the conclusion in any way.
 
Is that a fact in evidence? I haven't kept up with the interviews the authors have done -- I read one of Dave's, and that was it -- but did one of them say explicitly that CBS said, "No Voyager?" Or is this an assumption because there's virtually no Voyager in the trilogy, just Tom, B'Elanna, and Tuvok in their small roles?
I can't remember if this was in one of the acknowledgements at the end of one of the three books, or if this was in an interview online (I've listened to two interviews with two of the authors in podcasts so far).

I think it was in the interview with David Mack where he mentioned that CBS gave them a few ground rules, and one of them was not to touch Beyer's Voyager continuity (which I guess they skirted around with the Paris family, since they had left Voyager at the end of that run and returned to Earth).

As I recall, this ground rule was also why the Krenim were ultimately not involved with this crisis as so many (myself included) had assumed they would be.
 
I don't write a ton here, mainly because I get to say it all on Literary Treks, but I wanted to say, this whole thing does hurt. Like @Thrawn the Lit-verse has been my Trek for over 15 years. It has been the Trek that has kept me going when I have pretty much hated DISCO and thought PIC started with some promise and then feel into complete disarray rather quickly (I mean that show is a mess by the end).

The Litverse gave me the Picard I always wanted, one that did the hardest thing in life he could ever do. It wasn't facing the Borg again for the 1000th time, it was becoming a husband and a father. He charted the human condition in ways he'd never done previously and in doing so, it made him a better man as well as captain. The fact that we are losing that to a show that made the character a shell of himself, hurts.

There is one thing about this that is a silver lining for me. Most of you probably have heard me talk about how much I hate what became of Sisko and a lot of the storylines for the DS9 crew. The fact that, as far as we know, they are all happy and healthy is a comfort. DS9 is still my favorite Trek of all time and arguably the best, so knowing that at this moment, till some writer on TV messes things up, that Bashir and Ezri are still together, is awesome for me.

The whole thing is a mixed bag for me.
 
I don't write a ton here, mainly because I get to say it all on Literary Treks, but I wanted to say, this whole thing does hurt. Like @Thrawn the Lit-verse has been my Trek for over 15 years. It has been the Trek that has kept me going when I have pretty much hated DISCO and thought PIC started with some promise and then feel into complete disarray rather quickly (I mean that show is a mess by the end).

The Litverse gave me the Picard I always wanted, one that did the hardest thing in life he could ever do. It wasn't facing the Borg again for the 1000th time, it was becoming a husband and a father. He charted the human condition in ways he'd never done previously and in doing so, it made him a better man as well as captain. The fact that we are losing that to a show that made the character a shell of himself, hurts.

There is one thing about this that is a silver lining for me. Most of you probably have heard me talk about how much I hate what became of Sisko and a lot of the storylines for the DS9 crew. The fact that, as far as we know, they are all happy and healthy is a comfort. DS9 is still my favorite Trek of all time and arguably the best, so knowing that at this moment, till some writer on TV messes things up, that Bashir and Ezri are still together, is awesome for me.

The whole thing is a mixed bag for me.
This was a consolation I took away from Coda, too.

Bashir was one of my favorite characters, and he got beat to hell and back in the last few stories that he was a part of.
It was bittersweet to know that he went out like a hero, and that all his suffering didn't even happen now.

Part of me still irrationally hopes that the Vesta class will work its way into canon, and will do so seeing Ezri Dax as captain of the Aventine again.
 
This was a consolation I took away from Coda, too.

Bashir was one of my favorite characters, and he got beat to hell and back in the last few stories that he was a part of.
It was bittersweet to know that he went out like a hero, and that all his suffering didn't even happen now.

Part of me still irrationally hopes that the Vesta class will work its way into canon, and will do so seeing Ezri Dax as captain of the Aventine again.

Oh I would love to see that, with Bashir has her CMO :)
 
Oh I would love to see that, with Bashir has her CMO :)
the-avengers-marvel.gif
 
In the STO game Timeline, Bashir and Ezri stayed together and got married, which is... eh. I honestly never liked them together. Ezri is also Captain the Aventine in the STO Timeline. Bashir was retired though by the time he appears it the game, he's only recommissioned by request.
 
The fact that we are losing that to a show that made the character a shell of himself, hurts.

We're not losing it, since that series of tales still exists and will always be available to re-read, just as '80s and '90s books superseded by TNG such as The Final Reflection and Federation are still there to enjoy. It's not continuing further, no, but what we have is here to stay.

(Incidentally, I think people who disliked Discovery seasons 1-2 might be pleasantly surprised by season 4 so far. I had a very mixed reaction to the first two seasons, but I felt season 3 worked fairly well aside from the rather pointless Georgiou stuff, and so far I think season 4 is the best Trek we've gotten in a long time.)
 
We're not losing it, since that series of tales still exists and will always be available to re-read, just as '80s and '90s books superseded by TNG such as The Final Reflection and Federation are still there to enjoy. It's not continuing further, no, but what we have is here to stay.

(Incidentally, I think people who disliked Discovery seasons 1-2 might be pleasantly surprised by season 4 so far. I had a very mixed reaction to the first two seasons, but I felt season 3 worked fairly well aside from the rather pointless Georgiou stuff, and so far I think season 4 is the best Trek we've gotten in a long time.)
Very much this.

I still have my hard cover edition of Federation, and that is still one of my favorite Star Trek novels, continuity be damned.

And agreed on Discovery.
I was very VERY mixed on it in the first two seasons, but it is warming up to be one of my favorite modern-era Star Trek series (after Lower Decks, of course).
 
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