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Spoilers Classic Race All But Confirmed

Ricky Spanish said:
Problem for a lot of us is, that anything negative we say gets magnified to the Nth degree, while most of the positive things we say get ignored.

I've been more than complimentary towards the acting for all of Discovery's first season. Less so the writing and design, but those are the things people eat up.

I was more than complimentary towards the first trailer. That gets lost. Because people are more interested in needling me for losing interest once I find out there's more Klingon non-sense, and now the Talosians.
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And sometimes it feels that if you like Discovery instead of appreciating the apparent genius of The Orville or The Expanse or Westworld (all shows that I've seen Discovery compared to) you're some type of lowest common denominator moron who just likes being spoon-fed. That shit is offensive.

If you want to critique a show by all means do so, but there is a way of doing it that is constructive and leads to discussion and perhaps people seeing your point of view. The other way and often most common way of doing so in this forum is just inflammatory and makes people defensive, which it often feels is the intended outcome.

I don't mean any of this as a personal attack on you, BillJ. I know you can be balanced in your opinions. I'm talking more generally. I don't expect people to blindly like the show, it's not perfect after all.
 
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In one of the Orville threads about a year ago (early in both show's lives), I made a snarky quip to the effect "Orville is Star Trek without the pretense. Disco is the pretense without the Star Trek." And while I think that still holds true somewhat, things have certainly changed.

I became really bored with Orville towards the end. The jokes were always funny - hysterical even - but the plots themselves lost a lot of the oomph of the first few. It really started to feel like Voyager episodes, with all the cultural insight found in Dave Berry's wastebasket. That is the say, the "pretense" really started to creep in.

On the other hand, Disco's second half was markedly better than the first. And while it remained as pretentious as ever right up to the end, I at least felt there was a sense of purpose and an amount of nuance that's usually absent from the franchise's usually preachiness. And now they're clearly trying to put the "Star Trek" back in -- maybe even to the point of overcompensating.

Here's the thing though: I don't care. Until someone prohibits me from doing so, I'm going to continue to watch - and enjoy - both.

And Expanse/Westworld really don't belong in the conversation. They're in a whole nother league.
 
Since Discovery vs. The Orville is a comparison that some want to force, I prefer to not give them what they want. ("No!" "But why?" "Because you wish it!") I also like both, even though I can do without the Seth MacFarlane humor. It's not my thing and never has been.

The only difference is, I feel an urgency to watch Discovery again as soon as S2 starts. With The Orville, I'll almost definitely watch S2 of it "whenever". I still haven't finished watching all of The X-Files Season 11 yet. Just no urgency to.
 
XCV330 said:
I would like to hear lots of creepy guitar with extra reverb every time a talosian is seen.
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then I would like it to turn out that they mentally project that music
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You definitely need to write a letter to the production crew demanding this.
 
mickmike said:
And sometimes it feels that if you like Discovery instead of appreciating the apparent genius of The Orville or The Expanse or Westworld (all shows that I've seen Discovery compared to) you're some type of lowest common denominator moron who just likes been spoon-fed. That shit is offensive.

If you want to critique a show by all means do so, but there is a way of doing it that is constructive and leads to discussion and perhaps people seeing your point of view. The other way and often most common way of doing so in this forum is just inflammatory and makes people defensive, which it often feels is the intended outcome.

I don't mean any of this as a personal attack on you, BillJ. I know you can be balanced in your opinions. I'm talking more generally. I don't expect people to blindly like the show, it's not perfect after all.
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I don't be know... if think you nailed it.
 
mickmike said:
I don't mean any of this as a personal attack on you, BillJ. I know you can be balanced in your opinions. I'm talking more generally. I don't expect people to blindly like the show, it's not perfect after all.
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FWIW, I've always felt BillJ was one of the more reasonable outspoken critics around here. Sure, he complains pretty much all the time, but I've never gotten the sense it comes from a place of entitlement or hatred, just from a disappointed man who really wishes he liked the new Star Trek series, but doesn't. Compared to certain other posters I can think of who act like their burning hatred for a fucking TV show is a mark of thier refinement as human beings.
 
Gepard said:
FWIW, I've always felt BillJ was one of the more reasonable outspoken critics around here. Sure, he complains pretty much all the time, but I've never gotten the sense it comes from a place of entitlement or hatred, just from a disappointed man who really wishes he liked the new Star Trek series, but doesn't. Compared to certain other posters I can think of who act like their burning hatred for a fucking TV show is a mark of thier refinement as human beings.
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Same here. I may disagree with him on many points, but he and eye have agreed more than once and I certainly appreciate his perspective.
 
I don't have a problem with 99% of the people here, but a lot of stuff came out of the woodwork in this thread.

Then there are the Talosians. I wonder why they thought having "Adam" and "Eve" repopulate the planet would do much good for them? It would take generations and a lot of inbreeding to create the human(oid) community they were after.

They'd have to bring all kinds of specimens to the planet. And not specimens who would want to leave, since that community would have to make the planet habitable again.
 
Lord Garth said:
I don't have a problem with 99% of the people here, but a lot of stuff came out of the woodwork in this thread.

Then there are the Talosians. I wonder why they thought having "Adam" and "Eve" repopulate the planet would do much good for them? It would take generations and a lot of inbreeding to create the human(oid) community they were after.

They'd have to bring all kinds of specimens to the planet. And not specimens who would want to leave, since that community would have to make the planet habitable again.
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I've always felt that the Talosians were being just a bit conniving in their stated reasons.
Remember, they 'get off' on viewing what their specimens come up with.
That in and of itself is more than a bit hypocritical.
:shifty:
 
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DaveyNY said:
I've always felt that the Talosians were being just a bit conniving in their stated reasons.
Remember they 'get off' on viewing what their specimens come up with.
That in and of itself is more than a bit hypocritical.
:shifty:
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This is one of my favorite exchanges in the episode. Cutting-and-pasting from IMDB:

First Talosian: [talking about Pike, who is being held in a Talosian prison cell] It appears, Magistrate, that the intelligence of the specimen is shockingly limited.

The Keeper: This is no surprise, since his vessel was baited here so easily with a simulated message. As you can read in its thoughts, it is only now beginning to suspect that the survivors and encampment were a simple illusion we placed in their minds.

Captain Christopher Pike: You're not speaking, yet I can hear you.

The Keeper: You will note the confusion as it reads our thought transmissions.

Captain Christopher Pike: All right then, telepathy. You can read my mind, I can read yours. Now, unless you want my ship to consider capturing me an unfriendly act...

The Keeper: You'll now see the primitive fear threat reaction. The specimen is about to boast of his strength, the weaponry of his vessel, and so on. Next, frustrated into a need to display physical prowess, the creature will throw himself against the transparency.

[Pike does so]

Captain Christopher Pike: If you were in here, wouldn't you test the strength of these walls, too? There's a way out of any cage, and I'll find it!

The Keeper: Despite its frustration, the creature appears more adaptable than our specimens from other planets. We can soon begin the experiment.

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I love this! And it's "the experiment". So you might be right. Maybe it is how they get off. They want to watch Pike and Vina try to put together their own physical version of Sim City.

If something like that happened on a larger scale, and they want to get have fun with the entire quadrant -- who knows how far their power of illusion stretches? -- that would cause some large-scale problems. It all depends on how sympathetic (or not) they want to make them.
 
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