Classic episodes now considered "lame" - ?!

[scotpens]

Of course, if Pike had been able to communicate what he was flashing "no" to, there would have been no story.

 

[Phaser Two]

I don’t have a huge problem believing that something about Pike's condition and its interaction with available technology prevented anything other than yes/no answers. The script—which, let's not forget, was an envelope to present "The Cage"—wasn't detailed enough about it, but I think there are many reasonable explanations.

 

[Troi]

Of course we all have various opinions of which episodes are good and bad. And some TOS episodes have aged better than others. And The Way to Eden was dated from the get-go, And the Children Shall Lead is widely regarded as abysmal, etc.

But it surprises me to read that episodes that are still among my favorites seem to have lost their appeal. One site I visited recently continues to praise Balance of Terror (and rightfully so -- that episode remains superb) but now has people calling The Menagerie "very, very lame," The Naked Time "idiotic," and Journey to Babel "contrived."

Maybe our tastes simply change over time?

I would not agree with the Menagerie being 'very very lame' but its one of the hardest episodes to watch as of my most recent watch though. This is because TOS is very slow to begin with, and this is a two parter! featuring a lot of reused footage from The Cage which I would have just watched recently. I'm actually currently watching TOS again with my fiance and we decided to not watch The Cage this time in hopes of making this episode more fun to watch!

 

[johnnybear]

Who is to say just how badly Pike was affected by those Delta rays? Maybe telepathy and other sciences could have helped but like Commodore Mendez said, nobody can reach him.
JB

 

[Kor]

I would not agree with the Menagerie being 'very very lame' but its one of the hardest episodes to watch as of my most recent watch though. This is because TOS is very slow to begin with, and this is a two parter! featuring a lot of reused footage from The Cage which I would have just watched recently. I'm actually currently watching TOS again with my fiance and we decided to not watch The Cage this time in hopes of making this episode more fun to watch!

At the time, "The Cage" itself had never been broadcast, so to viewers watching "The Menagerie," the whole thing was a new experience.

Kor

 

[JonnyQuest037]

In a society where there are literal telepaths serving in Starfleet, the idea that the best they could manage was a yes or no flashing light was absurd.

Remember, "The Menagerie" was only halfway through the first season of TOS. IIRC, Spock had done all of two mind melds at that point, in "Dagger of the Mind" and "Return of the Archons." In "Dagger," It was painted as a highly risky procedure, and in "Archons," it was unsuccessful. It wasn't the go-to move that it would become by the second season.

Though if that was the case, it kind of begs the question of what Pike's quality of life really was, and why apparently euthanasia/assisted suicide was apparently never on the table.

...Because it was a network television episode airing in 1966?

 

[scotpens]

I would not agree with the Menagerie being 'very very lame' but its one of the hardest episodes to watch as of my most recent watch though. This is because TOS is very slow to begin with, and this is a two parter!

Slow? The pacing and editing of Trek TOS is comparable to other TV drama series of its time. Meaning it actually gives the viewer time to listen to the dialogue, understand the characters and follow the story.

Oh, and welcome to the board!

Though if that was the case, it kind of begs the question of what Pike's quality of life really was, and why apparently euthanasia/assisted suicide was apparently never on the table.

...Because it was a network television episode airing in 1966?

Exactly. The network censors would never have permitted it.

 

[DonIago]

...Because it was a network television episode airing in 1966?

"We've attempted every medical solution that would have been available to a human living in the year 1966, and there's nothing we can do!"

 

[The Salt Umpire]

...now I kind of like the idea that Pike was in so much agony that attempting telepathic communication with him harmed the telepath.

Gem has joined the chat

 

[Maurice]

I even had fun calculating that if they somehow do meet, how many megatonnes would two men of 175 pounds make assuming a 100% mass to energy conversion? An approximate result would be a fully switched on Tsar Bomba. Certainly not 'jeopardizing the existence of our Universe'.

I asked ChatGPT to calculate it, and it says more like 3,410 megatons, or 68 times the yield of the Tsar Bomba (roughly 227,000 “Hiroshima” (15-kt) bombs). Enough to make a miles-wide crater on the Earth, but literally not Earth-shattering, let alone universe-wrecking.

I never took the idea literally as the two men exploding, more like if two objects from the opposing universes met in either, it would be making an uncontrolled bridge between opposite-charged universes that would cause them to cancel each other out.

I maintain that the simplest solution to the danger would have been for Kirk to just phaser insane Lazarus into vapor, and problem solved.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

I asked ChatGPT to calculate it, and it says more like 3,410 megatons, or 68 times the yield of the Tsar Bomba (roughly 227,000 “Hiroshima” (15-kt) bombs). Enough to make a miles-wide crater on the Earth, but literally not Earth-shattering, let alone universe-wrecking.

I never took the idea literally as the two men exploding, more like if two objects from the opposing universes met in either, it would be making an uncontrolled bridge between opposite-charged universes that would cause them to cancel each other out.

I maintain that the simplest solution to the danger would have been for Kirk to just phaser insane Lazarus into vapor, and problem solved.

I like your numbers, I found a kg to MgTonne conversion page. 3.4 billion megatonnes would be a big crater.

Kilogram to Megajoule | Kilograms to Megajoules Conversion

unitsconverters.com helps in the conversion of different units of measurement like Kilogram to Megajoule through multiplicative conversion factors.

www.unitsconverters.com

Yes, shoot him into vapor.

 

[I am not Herbert]

I maintain that the simplest solution to the danger would have been for Kirk to just phaser insane Lazarus into vapor, and problem solved.

But what of Lazarus?

 

[Maurice]

But what of Lazarus?

Which one?

 

[I am not Herbert]

Which one?

Exactly.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Exactly.

Tuvix: The Dimensional Prequel