Civilians on Federation ships

[TheCegorach]

Sidestepping the debate about whether or not it's wise to put civilians on a ship that's regularly exposed to danger, the fact remains that we see (in the TNG-era, at least) that they're undeniably there.

I wonder, though, who hires and supervises them? Are they (generally) contractors hired by Starfleet? Should we just assume that they're like civilian personnel working on a military base?

We're told Guinan was brought onto Picard's Enterprise at his special request (per Memory Alpha); if that was the exception, where do 'normal' bartending staff come from?

 

[The Wormhole]

Presumably, they are just civilian contractors, not the Ten-Forward staff do have their own uniforms. Guinan is likely from outside the company or whatever the rest of her staff are from.

But yeah, they're basically similar to civilian staff found on military bases.

 

[TheCegorach]

I also wonder what the civilian family members on board Federation ships do with their time. What did Jennifer Sisko do aboard the Saratoga while Ben was on shift? Jake was old enough to not need constant supervision...and for that matter, what did Jake do with his free time? It's not like he could hang out at the mall. Likewise for other husbands and wives of Starfleet personnel who accompany them on a tour of duty--how do they fill their time?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Probably the same way families in small towns do.

While a Starfleet vessel has its operations, ships with family members have separate areas and services dedicated to civilian personnel, IMO.

 

[Timo]

Many starships do have sufficient size for accommodating something comparable to a mall, but that must get boring real soon.

Then again, Starfleet has a laid-back policy about shore leave: if our hero vessels are any indication, the ships visit exotic alien ports every two weeks and give the crew and presumably the civilians free hands with the planet, its natural wonders and its inhabitants and services. If a specific mission ties down the ship for several months at a stretch, this is considered exceptional and the crew presumed fatigued, and there's all sorts of pressure to get the crew to an especially enjoyable shore leave location. This even in TNG despite the gigantic ship supposedly featuring far more creature comforts than would be found in a typical 10,000 inhabitant town today.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[trekshark]

I also wonder what the civilian family members on board Federation ships do with their time. What did Jennifer Sisko do aboard the Saratoga while Ben was on shift? Jake was old enough to not need constant supervision...and for that matter, what did Jake do with his free time? It's not like he could hang out at the mall. Likewise for other husbands and wives of Starfleet personnel who accompany them on a tour of duty--how do they fill their time?

I do wonder about Sisko's family and any other family members that may have been on the saratoga or other similar sized vessels
A galaxy class (at least the Enterpirse-D) has multiple holodecks, enough kids on board to have permanent classrooms and teachers, an arboretum (possibly other similar things like botanical gardens, butterfly houses, etc), pools, gyms, etc
I can't see a miranda class having much of that stuff

 

[USS Triumphant]

I honestly have to say that - Jennifer and Jake Sisko notwithstanding - I consider the depiction of families living on anything built prior to Galaxy- or Nebula-class starships to be an error. And I prefer to think that Jennifer and Jake picked a bad week to visit.

 

[The Wormhole]

I honestly have to say that - Jennifer and Jake Sisko notwithstanding - I consider the depiction of families living on anything built prior to Galaxy- or Nebula-class starships to be an error. And I prefer to think that Jennifer and Jake picked a bad week to visit.

Except there were other civilians onboard the Saratoga as well. When Sisko is on his way to his quarters, he bumps into a civilian woman and starts asking her if she saw Jennifer. Also, in the escape pod there is at least one other child present.

 

[Ithekro]

The Miranda-class is old, but really not that small. One would assume with additional automation that the crew size would be reduced from their 2280s days, and even then a group of less than 70 Augments were able to functionally crew one. One assumes that Miranda has at least some of the recreational areas that a Constitution has. Though I would think they might annex the bowling alley to fit in the warp core.

By the 24th century, I can imagine they would have repurposed several of the old crew quarters for other activities and allowed at least some families to travel with the crew.

What did Jennifer Sisko do in the normal universe again? She was likely not a member of the crew, but could she have been a specialist? Saratoga is fitted out with some different equipment than most Mirandas.

 

[Armored Saint]

There are probably federal civil servants among them. We don't know how are divided the powers between the Federation and the planets and what's the bureaucratic structure of the UFP, but there's not only High Commissionner Assholes and Jerkass who needs to travel in space. We can hope the problems of centralization and decentralization will have been resolvend in the 24th century. Civilian scientists are probably employees of the Federation and not Sarfleet itself.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I honestly have to say that - Jennifer and Jake Sisko notwithstanding - I consider the depiction of families living on anything built prior to Galaxy- or Nebula-class starships to be an error. And I prefer to think that Jennifer and Jake picked a bad week to visit.

Except there were other civilians onboard the Saratoga as well. When Sisko is on his way to his quarters, he bumps into a civilian woman and starts asking her if she saw Jennifer. Also, in the escape pod there is at least one other child present.

Perhaps Saratoga was on leave at Earth when the order was given for all ships available to leave immediately for Wolf 359 at maximum warp? (Yeah, I know - seems like they would have taken a couple of minutes to beam the civilians off, but still.)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

From the way the series was presented circa TNG season 1, I would say that civilians who want to be stationed aboard a starship need to draft up and present a proposal to Starfleet justifying the need.

At the start of TNG ships were more "Diplomacy/Research vessels who dabble in combat".

 

[T'Girl]

What did Jennifer Sisko do in the normal universe again?

Someone had to run the Saratoga's version of Ten'Forward.

Growing up on military bases, dependent spouses drove the taxi cabs on base, worked in the barber shops, restaurants and snack bars, the base exchange, did janitorial, worked in the schools.

Those spouse who did work on the ships would likely be civilian contractors in the employ of Starfleet, they would be responsible to the Captain.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

What did Jennifer Sisko do in the normal universe again?

Someone had to run the Saratoga's version of Ten'Forward.

Growing up on military bases, dependent spouses drove the taxi cabs on base, worked in the barber shops, restaurants and snack bars, the base exchange, did janitorial, worked in the schools.

Those spouse who did work on the ships would likely be civilian contractors in the employ of Starfleet, they would be responsible to the Captain.

The question, though, is why that someone couldn't just be a Starfleet officer? I mean, sure, there's plenty of examples of this kind of thing on Military Bases, but bases are stationary and usually not in any real danger. Is a starship really analogous to a base? When you go to the 'store' on an aircraft carrier to buy a stick of gum, is the guy that's running that store a civilian contractor, too? Or is he a naval officer who shares the duty of keeping the store running?

I get that Starfleet is less military than anything we have today, and for whatever reason they have determined that it's a good idea for officers to at least be allowed to keep their families with them whenever possible. So if those spouses want to work, then it makes sense that someone would find something for them to do. But why would Starfleet even want to bring on completely unrelated civilian contractors like Guinan or that Bolian barber? Isn't it a lot simpler to just assign some small set of Lt. jg's to run ten forward?

 

[TheCegorach]

Those were more or less my questions as well, Grendelsbayne.

 

[T'Girl]

I doubt the person running a snack bar would hold the rank of officer. The point I was making is that if there are adult civilian family members on board, likely there would be things for them to do.

US Navy ships don't carry families, but they do sometimes deploy with civilian contractors on board.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I doubt the person running a snack bar would hold the rank of officer. The point I was making is that if there are adult civilian family members on board, likely there would be things for them to do.

US Navy ships don't carry families, but they do sometimes deploy with civilian contractors on board.

Obviously there's a tendency for fans to automatically use the phrase 'starfleet officer' just because the show uses it so much, but we do know they have enlisted men, so that it's below an officer's pay grade obviously isn't an issue.

I do agree that if there are civilians on board anyway it makes sense for them to be able to have a job if they want, but the point I was making was that it doesn't make much sense (or doesn't seem to make much sense) for captains to specifically bring on extra civilians who weren't going to be there anyway.

Out of curiosity, do you have any details on what kind of civilian contractors have shipped out with the us navy and why?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Out of curiosity, do you have any details on what kind of civilian contractors have shipped out with the us navy and why?

I know you weren't talking to me, but mostly they have been instructors to teach university classes to the sailors while underway, and personnel from military contractors like Lockheed or Raytheon who are on the ship to install, test, or train sailors on their equipment.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Yeah, that kind of position makes sense. Bartenders and barbers? Not so much...

 

[SPCTRE]

Yeah, that kind of position makes sense. Bartenders and barbers? Not so much...

Why not?