Even the Yesterday's Enterprise timeline, where Starfleet was intentionally portrayed as a military and the Enterprise was a warship still had a civilian bartender.
Why not?Yeah, that kind of position makes sense. Bartenders and barbers? Not so much...
If I was inclined to take your question very literally, I would probably answer that the job of the bartender may involve more than operating a tap or mixing drinks.When all you're looking for is someone to watch the bar, what on earth do you need outside expertise for?
Why would you tie down one of your highly train enlisted/NCO's tending bar, or cutting hair?When all you're looking for is someone to watch the bar, what on earth do you need outside expertise for?
The mighty big difference is that submarines (and other naval vessels) go on deployments that last for months. Not multiple years.Probably the only military units that exist in starship-like isolation today are submarines, and those have neither bars nor barbers.
Depends on how small is small.I wonder whether smaller starships are similarly austere?
The mighty big difference is that submarines (and other naval vessels) go on deployments that last for months. Not multiple years.
Why would you tie down one of your highly train enlisted/NCO's tending bar, or cutting hair?When all you're looking for is someone to watch the bar, what on earth do you need outside expertise for?
Incidently, tending a busy bar is a trained skill, and requires experience. The same with cutting hair (if it's going to be done properly).
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Yes I am.You're assuming the ncos are highly trained ...
Yes I am.You're assuming the ncos are highly trained ...
The show focuses on the ship's officers (for the most part), but in a modern military the officers provide management, while the nco's are the ones who actually run the day to day operation of the unit.
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Why would you tie down one of your highly train enlisted/NCO's tending bar, or cutting hair?
The same was pretty much true of the Royal Navy 200 years ago, but their 'ncos' were basically shoved straight onto the ships, expected to learn anything they didn't already know hands-on.
Why would you tie down one of your highly train enlisted/NCO's tending bar, or cutting hair?
Historically, the main reasons are so they will be covered by the same discipline and justice system as applies to the majority of the crew and will follow orders when necessary, and to avoid questions of who is a lawful combatant should they become prisoners. How much of that would apply to the Star Trek world is a fair question, though Picard did mention a convention on the treatment of POWs in "Chain of Command."
The same was pretty much true of the Royal Navy 200 years ago, but their 'ncos' were basically shoved straight onto the ships, expected to learn anything they didn't already know hands-on.
Well, no. A NCO is what navies call a "petty officer," and petty officers in the Royal Navy 200 years ago got their ratings based on experience, which could be extensive, and demonstrated skills. They had considerable responsibility in areas such as maintaining order and discipline (master-at-arms), handling the rigging and boats (boatswains' mates), steering and navigation (quartermasters), handling gunpowder and guns (gunners' mates), hull maintenance and repair (carpenter's mates), accounting for supplies (yeomen) and so on.
Ok, wrong terminology, but the point remains, the majority of the sailors who were responsible for running those ships were not trained (outside of just being on the ships).
Ok, wrong terminology, but the point remains, the majority of the sailors who were responsible for running those ships were not trained (outside of just being on the ships).
It depends on what you mean by trained. All training was on-the-job, yes, but a sailing warship was too complex an operation to be run with a majority of untrained sailors. When new crewmen came aboard they would be questioned about their experience by the first lieutenant and rated able seaman (skilled), ordinary seaman (semi-skilled) or landsman (unskilled labor, entry-level). The skills of an able seaman took years to acquire. There was no formula for how many of each class, but 40% landsmen, 30% ordinary seamen and 30% able seamen and petty officers would be considered a well-manned vessel.
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