City on the Edge of Tomorrow: Overrated

[MAGolding]

The death of the rodent means that time has not resumed it's shape as it was before surely? What if he was a member of a group of tramps and his interaction was needed? Or that he was hit by a car or lorry and that altered the lives of the drivers that or he was about to die from kidney failure anyway due to his boozing and his way of life and this was a much more merciful death!
JB

There is a classic article in one of the Best of Trek Books discussing this. I believe the title was "the Amazing Disappearing Bum". The article listed four different alternate universes depending on whether Edith and the Bum lived or died. One universe for each of the four possible outcomes. One universe led to Star Trek, one to our timeline, and the other two to different timelines.

Yes:

Mason, Jeff "The disappearing bum: a fun look at time travels in Star Trek",in Walter Irwin and G.B.Love (eds) The Best of Trek 11 (New York: ROC 1992).

https://books.google.com/books?id=KB-QDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT303&lpg=PT303&dq=the+best+of+trek+the+amazing+disappearing+bum&source=bl&ots=75TVwHdTsC&sig=ACfU3U3ZzoaREhwx9DGbOmcO3AqZbVVqjg&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR6u2QxuHoAhWlgnIEHePhDS4Q6AEwAHoECAwQKQ#v=onepage&q=the best of trek the amazing disappearing bum&f=false

Oops! It appears I wrote part of this inaccurately:

That reference is The Best of the Best of Trek II. The original was in The Best of Trek 16, 1991:
https://archive.org/details/bestofbestoftrek0000unse/page/n5/

 

[diankra]

There is a classic article in one of the Best of Trek Books discussing this. I believe the title was "the Amazing Disappearing Bum". The article listed four different alternate universes depending on whether Edith and the Bum lived or died. One universe for each of the four possible outcomes. One universe led to Star Trek, one to our timeline, and the other two to different timelines.

Yes:

Mason, Jeff "The disappearing bum: a fun look at time travels in Star Trek",in Walter Irwin and G.B.Love (eds) The Best of Trek 11 (New York: ROC 1992).

https://books.google.com/books?id=KB-QDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT303&lpg=PT303&dq=the+best+of+trek+the+amazing+disappearing+bum&source=bl&ots=75TVwHdTsC&sig=ACfU3U3ZzoaREhwx9DGbOmcO3AqZbVVqjg&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR6u2QxuHoAhWlgnIEHePhDS4Q6AEwAHoECAwQKQ#v=onepage&q=the best of trek the amazing disappearing bum&f=false

Think I read that, in one of the scenarios the character was an influence on Roddenberry or his father or a mentor?
Any way, it's the split point between Star Trek being 23rd century reality, and 1960s tv series, ISTR.

 

[Commishsleer]

Looking at the paper trail it's clear the Trek people didn't know how to deal with Harlan's story. The script he delivered is beat for beat the story outline they approved, but the show was evolving and no one seemed able to articulate actionable suggestions for him to make his story work for what the show was becoming.

Yes this was probably the main issue. They couldn't say exactly what they wanted. It looks as though Ellison made many revisions of an excellent piece of science fiction that had no issues due to it quality. Maybe I had this wring but I thought Ellison hung around the set for weeks and Roddenberry allowed many submissions so it wasn't as if either side didn't try to get agreement.
What I think it came down to is the money guy said they couldn't do it like Ellison had written it and GR didn't like what some of his characters were doing. Maybe Ellison could have kept his characters and the cost down if they had made it a 2-parter.
If Kirk had done as Ellison had scripted and tried to save Edith then to me that would have been a great departure from the character we got to know in TOS. A great story for some other Starfleet captain.
I look at Blish's novelisation for 'Amok Time' and am glad thats not the final version we saw on screen.

 

[Maurice]

Ellison never changed the script that much, except the opening, which got changed completely. I finally got my hands on Ellison's final post-Carabatsos attempt (the one he claimed he did gratis). It's not different enough in the story beats, even though the opening is wholly different. By that draft he's seen enough of Spock so the character is much more in character.

Justman was correct that the script was too expensive, but then, so was the show they shot, Years ago I did a breakdown of Ellison's 1st draft and the finished episode and concluded the scope wasn't astronomically different. Once Ellison replaced the Guardians with a device, chucked the (Ellison claims Roddenberry-mandated) pirates, and removed Beckwith, the scope dropped to something much closer to the finished episode. But...

The big issue with Ellison's scripts were more about story beats than plot and characterization issues. He takes too long to bring Edith into the story and introduces Trooper far too late. One day I'll play psuedo-Justman and re-break Ellison's script to show the kind of feedback I think would have salvaged it. No mechanical rice picker jokes (all Coon, Fontana told me so at lunch) necessary.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The death of the rodent means that time has not resumed it's shape as it was before surely?

The only reason that Edith was crossing the street when she was hit was that she was walking towards the reunion between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. If the Guardian was literally correct that time had "resumed its shape," then Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were always "meant" to be part of the events surrounding Edith's death. The same would therefore be true of Rodent's.

 

[Yistaan]

One thing I always wondered about this episode is why it's never mentioned that Kirk and Spock can just fake Edith's death and take her to the future with them...

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The death of the rodent means that time has not resumed it's shape as it was before surely?

Ellison addresses this at the end of his script with the death of Trooper. Kirk asks the Guardians about Trooper's death when he returns to his present, and the Guardians answer that his death just didn't matter in the flow of time. Sad but true.

Maybe I had this wring but I thought Ellison hung around the set for weeks and Roddenberry allowed many submissions so it wasn't as if either side didn't try to get agreement.

IIRC, Ellison was hanging around the set early in the season after he got the script assignment to get a feel for the show and how the actors were playing their parts. The photo of him with Shatner and Nimoy that's on the cover of his book was taken during the filming of "Mudd's Women." Remember that Ellison got the assignment early in Trek's first season but between Ellison blowing his deadlines and the rewriting, the episode wasn't shot until towards the end of the season. Ellison was pushing his deadline so much towards the end that Bob Justman locked him into an office on the lot. Ellison took revenge on Justman by eating a potted plant in the office.

 

[DonIago]

One thing I always wondered about this episode is why it's never mentioned that Kirk and Spock can just fake Edith's death and take her to the future with them...

You're assuming the Guardian would have allowed them to do so.

 

[diankra]

You're assuming the Guardian would have allowed them to do so.

Yep, it's a reasonable assumption that only those who'd gone back through the Guardian could come back to the future the same way.
As far as we can tell, it wasn't even their call on when to come home, it just happened once history was back on course.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yep. It's implied, according to what the Guardian said, that for time to resume its shape, Edith must have died. If Edith's death had been faked, time's shape would have been different, not resumed.

And faked how? Kirk and Spock had only the technology at hand. They couldn't have created a fake body, so they couldn't have faked her death. They could only have caused her to disappear. That would have set in motion who knows what chain of events that could have altered history in a whole new way, for example by triggering a police investigation into the disappearance of an important figure in the neighborhood; perhaps not all of the other regulars at the soup kitchen were so unimportant, maybe some had even been inspired by Edith to help create the future that Kirk and Spock knew and had futures that could not be disrupted by choosing a third alternative.

The tricorder provided evidence of only two histories that they had to choose between, one in which Edith lived and the other in which she died. Edith living in the future was not one of the alternatives they could choose from.

 

[Maurice]

It is implied that hey could not come back until time resumed its shape.

KIRK: Make sure we arrive before McCoy got there. It's vital we stop him before he does whatever it was that changed all history. Guardian, if we are successful...

GUARDIAN: Then you will be returned. It will be as though none of you had gone.​

The shooting script neglects making this clear. Kirk, desperate for an answer, surely should have suggested it and Spock shot it down.

 

[J.T.B.]

Mason, Jeff "The disappearing bum: a fun look at time travels in Star Trek",in Walter Irwin and G.B.Love (eds) The Best of Trek 11 (New York: ROC 1992).

https://books.google.com/books?id=KB-QDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT303&lpg=PT303&dq=the+best+of+trek+the+amazing+disappearing+bum&source=bl&ots=75TVwHdTsC&sig=ACfU3U3ZzoaREhwx9DGbOmcO3AqZbVVqjg&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR6u2QxuHoAhWlgnIEHePhDS4Q6AEwAHoECAwQKQ#v=onepage&q=the best of trek the amazing disappearing bum&f=false

That reference is The Best of the Best of Trek II. The original was in The Best of Trek 16, 1991:
https://archive.org/details/bestofbestoftrek0000unse/page/n5/

 

[MAGolding]

That reference is The Best of the Best of Trek II. The original was in The Best of Trek 16, 1991:
https://archive.org/details/bestofbestoftrek0000unse/page/n5/

Thank you for the correction.

 

[WebLurker]

This may be an unpopular opinion but Kirk was a much more believable character in the Ellison draft.

Fair enough if you think so. However, I think that his trying to save Keeler would've undermined his character; it was long established that he was one of the elite officers of the fleet (in the old show, it was often implied that a "starship" was a rare craft only given to the best of the best, not just the general name for a FTL spaceship) and had long been in a job where these kinds of decisions came with the territory. While painful, we would expect that Kirk would make the call that he did. I mean, you want a story with this dilemma where it makes sense that the hero would choose the one person over the many, check out the Life is Strange video game or something.

 

[DonIago]

I've always felt one of the greatest moments of the episode is that it has to be Kirk, who's fallen in love with Keeler, who has to take the action that will kill her.

 

[Henoch]

who has to take the action that will kill her.

He didn't "kill" her; he just let history replay itself where she died in a street accident. Technically, she was long dead, from his point of view as a future man experiencing it through The Guardian technology. Painful to experience? Yes. Wrong? Nope.

 

[J.T.B.]

However, I think that his trying to save Keeler would've undermined his character; it was long established that he was one of the elite officers of the fleet (in the old show, it was often implied that a "starship" was a rare craft only given to the best of the best, not just the general name for a FTL spaceship) and had long been in a job where these kinds of decisions came with the territory. While painful, we would expect that Kirk would make the call that he did.

This is a great point. Sending people to their deaths is a possibility a starship commander would have long been aware of. And judging from the end of "Balance of Terror," Kirk has come to terms with the responsibility.

 

[DonIago]

He didn't "kill" her; he just let history replay itself where she died in a street accident. Technically, she was long dead, from his point of view as a future man experiencing it through The Guardian technology. Painful to experience? Yes. Wrong? Nope.

I somehow suspect your point would bring Kirk very cold comfort.

 

[WebLurker]

This is a great point. Sending people to their deaths is a possibility a starship commander would have long been aware of. And judging from the end of "Balance of Terror," Kirk has come to terms with the responsibility.

Thanks. Forgot about that episode, but, yeah, that's a good point. There were quite a few good episodes and moments with Kirk having to make these kind of decisions that managed to balance him being able to see them done but still regretting it.

I somehow suspect your point would bring Kirk very cold comfort.

True enough. Come to think of it, though, the relationship with Keeler was doomed no matter how you slice it; even if she wasn't the focal point of history, Kirk still would've had to leave for the future once his job was done.

 

[DonIago]

Well, we don't always fall in love because we want to.

Anyway, if it had been someone else, Kirk might at least have been able to believe that they'd lived a long, happy live even if he couldn't be with them. In this case, that's not really an option.