A liitle too on the nose?
Nah. It's just pretty much what all forward thinkers, idealists and utopian dreamers have been wanting and writing about since before the episode was made.
City on the Edge of Tomorrow: Overrated
- Thread starter Thomas Elliot
- Start date
A liitle too on the nose?
Nah. It's just pretty much what all forward thinkers, idealists and utopian dreamers have been wanting and writing about since before the episode was made.
Where can you actually rewatch Blakes7?
I've got the DVDS FROM S1 AND S2 about 10 years ago. Which are of terrible quality and they are legal versions.
I know we're not meant to spruke anything here but can anyone point me in the direction of some good/fair quality DVDs or bluerays or even netflixy thing.
I think "City" is one of the really good installments of the franchise, but I will admit that there are quite a few other episodes I think are better.
As far as the Harlan Ellison debacle and the stories that have sprung up from that, I'm not exactly impressed with either side; while Roddenberry did treat Ellison pretty badly in the post-episode back and forth (e.g. the Scotty dealing drugs lie), Ellison always came across as a spoiled brat the way he demanded that he get the final say in the script and spent the next several decades screaming about he was entitled to that thing, which was never his in the first place. Probably doesn't help that I think the final version is a superior, more polished version of the story then what Ellison turned in.
As far as the Harlan Ellison debacle and the stories that have sprung up from that, I'm not exactly impressed with either side; while Roddenberry did treat Ellison pretty badly in the post-episode back and forth (e.g. the Scotty dealing drugs lie), Ellison always came across as a spoiled brat the way he demanded that he get the final say in the script and spent the next several decades screaming about he was entitled to that thing, which was never his in the first place. Probably doesn't help that I think the final version is a superior, more polished version of the story then what Ellison turned in.
And gutless and missing the entire thematic point of Ellison's, but your mileage clearly varies.
My point is Ellison's script didn't require the hatchet job performed on it. There were simpler fixes which could have resulted in something thoroughly in-line with Trek as it evolved and been a better and meatier story than the one we got...and without that awful Edith Keeler as Roddenberry speech.
My point is Ellison's script didn't require the hatchet job performed on it. There were simpler fixes which could have resulted in something thoroughly in-line with Trek as it evolved and been a better and meatier story than the one we got...and without that awful Edith Keeler as Roddenberry speech.
This may be an unpopular opinion but Kirk was a much more believable character in the Ellison draft.
I managed to get a Dutch DVD set from Amazon. I actually bought a multi-region Blu-Ray player just to watch them! The menus are in Dutch, but the show is in English with Dutch subtitles, which you can turn off. Unless you want to learn Dutch.
As long as I had the multi-region player, I also got a region 2 boxed set of Dempsey & Makepeace.
Does that one have commentary tracks?I managed to get a Dutch DVD set from Amazon. I actually bought a multi-region Blu-Ray player just to watch them! The menus are in Dutch, but the show is in English with Dutch subtitles, which you can turn off. Unless you want to learn Dutch.
As long as I had the multi-region player, I also got a region 2 boxed set of Dempsey & Makepeace.
Dude. It was a show made for Americans in the 1960s. Why would they show some expanded universe crap? The show was for that audience, and was ABOUT that audience. Don't get lost in the weeds.
Same thing here. Most of the planets looked like sets. That's because they were sets. It didn't bother anyone. Haven't you ever been to the theater?1930s Earth looked very much like a TV set.
The emphasis was not on REALISM. Indeed, shows like Spectre of the Gun and The Empath emphasized the limitations of working on a stage to excellent, surreal effect. You must have hated those.
Again - written for the audience, not for the sensibilities of someone who fancies himself more enlightened half a century later."My friend is obviously...Chinese. And his ears...they got caught in a rice picker." I can imagine a person from the the 60s trying to convince someone else that Spock's alien look is really just his Chinese features, but I found it hard to believe a human from the 23rd century would come up with a like like that. Not just the Chinese thing, but also the rice picker explanation.
It's sad you let that get in the way of enjoying the brilliant delivery by Shatner (and his interplay with Nimoy) in that scene. I've seen it hundreds of times, and still chuckle every time. But hey, maybe I'm racist. My Chinese wife doesn't think so, but who knows?
Why? Rodenberry did.
Again, the show was by humans FOR humans. The space background was just an opportunity to tell stories ABOUT humans. Don't take it so literally.
I just.... I got nothing here. wha???
I don't think you and I are going to be able to discuss much - our frames of reference are clearly so different that we'll likely end up talking past each other.
Because you already had a show that was running tight against its budget? In universe? It showed Earth because it already knows what happens.
Maybe it was a Freudian slip.
Tom Cruise, he is no William Shatner. 
-----
I thought Joan Collins did a good job portraying Edith. She was very believable as Edith.
Edith had an aristocratic demeanor and mannerism. It might have been due to Collins' persona. In any case, I thought Collins' persona worked to her advantage in her portrayal of Edith.
I don't recall if the story delved into Edith's background. But I could envision that she came from a privileged background -- which would explain her demeanor -- and that Edith is someone who chose to devote her life to charity and helping the poverty stricken, out of guilt or some duty or some calling.
Funny how one of the diners in her soup kitchen described Edith as a goody two shoes. And when she started her speech, Edith immediately denied that she was a do-gooder.
Because Kirk was the one who tried to save Edith and Spock stopped him? Because Kirk was so in love with Edith that he was willing to allow history to be radically altered and Nazi Germany to win World War II?
Sorry, that's not the kind of man I want commanding a starship. The great tragedy of the story is that Kirk knows he has to sacrifice his personal happiness for the sake of Earth's and all mankind's future. And he will make that sacrifice, because he values his duty above all else.
But what about her accent? "Have you heard? It seems Lord Keeler's daughter is slumming over in America!"
Did you overlook the fact that this very supposed coincidence was explicitly addressed in the dialog?
SPOCK: Captain, Edith Keeler is the focal point in time we've been looking for, the point that both we and Doctor McCoy have been drawn to.
KIRK: She has two possible futures then, and depending on whether she lives or dies, all of history will be changed. And McCoy
SPOCK: Is the random element.
KIRK: She has two possible futures then, and depending on whether she lives or dies, all of history will be changed. And McCoy
SPOCK: Is the random element.
SPOCK: First, I believe we have about a week before McCoy arrives, but we can't be certain.
KIRK: Arrives where? Honolulu, Boise, San Diego? Why not Outer Mongolia, for that matter?
SPOCK: There is a theory. There could be some logic to the belief that time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash.
KIRK: And the same currents that swept McCoy to a certain time and place might sweep us there, too.
SPOCK: Unless that is true, Captain, we have no hope. Frustrating. Locked in here is the place and moment of his arrival, even the images of what he did. If only I could tie this tricorder in with the ship's computers for just a few moments.
KIRK: Arrives where? Honolulu, Boise, San Diego? Why not Outer Mongolia, for that matter?
SPOCK: There is a theory. There could be some logic to the belief that time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash.
KIRK: And the same currents that swept McCoy to a certain time and place might sweep us there, too.
SPOCK: Unless that is true, Captain, we have no hope. Frustrating. Locked in here is the place and moment of his arrival, even the images of what he did. If only I could tie this tricorder in with the ship's computers for just a few moments.
http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/28.htm
It wasn't a coincidence at all.
How's that for 1960s standards!?
That and "Rumours of Death"...
As a teen, I thought this time capsule into 1968 motif was oh-so-cool. But that's the late-1980s for ya. A few years later, it's all glossy fluff filled with amazing coincidences, just the right timings, and straining the all-important suspense of disbelief factor way too much.
Gary's really a bit of weak character, complete with magic wand that does anything on cue - proving once and for all that cheap scripting didn't start in the 21st century, but as a pilot to show what COULD happen... except it's all humdrum at best. Spock saying how everything that's happened at the end of the story is what was expected to and how Gary and co will have great adventures puts a massive cold shower on everything up to that point, which honestly wasn't much.
But back to "City", and not the good Blake's 7 one:
Which was okay, but not great. DeForrest acts his socks off, though.
Probably to save on budget (despite it still being fairly formidable). The whole episode has that feel of "backlot cost-saver" to it.
That's been a bug for me for decades as well, a lot of sci-fi panders for ratings yet sci-fi is supposed to be seeing different things. Maybe the Guardian senses the beings gawking it and shows them what they want to see?
1930s Earth looked very much like a TV set.
"My friend is obviously...Chinese. And his ears...they got caught in a rice picker." I can imagine a person from the the 60s trying to convince someone else that Spock's alien look is really just his Chinese features, but I found it hard to believe a human from the 23rd century would come up with a like like that. Not just the Chinese thing, but also the rice picker explanation.
That line was always horrid and on so many levels. The 23rd century also had Asian diversity, so Kirk trying to play "fish out of water" (See STIV TVH for more on that, where it actually worked for a while!) to explain Spock really flounders. Conflating eyes with ears was just... stupid. American stereotypes circa 1930 might accord the rice picking line, but not all in the audience will pick up on the temporal deviation to that extent. (It's not too unlike listening to a song sung as third person and perceiving it as first person...) The fact it's brought about due to the ear conflation just creates a double-whammy.
It's hokum. Like Cochrtane in STFC saying how they're all on some star trek only not quite as bad.
Worse, the pacifist who has to die so peace could be achieved - the episode is trying to sell a heck of an irony but it doesn't really work.
For the 1960s, time travel and ironic parodoxies as plots were flocked to, even if the character drama was subpar. They were more novel, hence this story gaining cult-favored status.
It was a cost-saving measure, overused in season 2... It's not a bad idea but this sort of thing wouldn't really be properly exploited until a certain 1990s "Sliders" came about. Biological patterning is not going to be similar between species; even if there is for sentience, the development of it can still take massive turns and not be a parallel to Earth. Certainly not in readily-recognizable forms. At least they had starship captains forgetting communicators and books or offering ideas, which then led to a parallel-Earth scenario... but even then...
Joan Collins was passable, but she hit her mark in a certain soap opera a decade or so later... really worked well alongside Kate O'Mara... I suspect Joan relished and preferred more edgy roles than optimist types.
Like this one:
Now I understand why "Dynasty" was so popular. Two actors who really sell these roles with aplomb... good grief, they made actual soap opera entertaining.
I dunno, this episode is a deserved classic for me, as miuch as I don't revisit it as often as other episodes. It's a great template time travel episode with legitimate personal stakes for Kirk. As othwers have pointed out, none of it is coincidence in regards to Kirk and Spock winding up in the same place as McCoy. We're not entirely sure how long Kirk and spock have to wait for McCoy. At least a eeek, but maybe more. Enough time for Kirk and Edith to fall in love, which works for me.
As for the Guardian showing Earth's past and not Vulcan's, why would it? All but one member of the landing party was human. Why would the guardian offer to show only Spock's planet rather than the majority of the people there? And they didn't have enough time for a long assed tour through history.
I never liked the idea that Kirk would sacrifice his ship and the lives of uncounted milions in favor of saving one life. Watching Kirk rip himslef to shreds knowing what he must do and momentarily forgetting that, enough so Spock has to yell "No Jim!" makes him human. He can't watch it happen, he buries his face into Bones' shoulder. It's a beautiful scene.
Blakes 7: I just did a full series re-watch a few months ago. I always loved that series. A bit of a rough start, honestly, but once it hit its stride, it was unbeatable. It lost a few steps in the third year and with new characters coming in and seemingly taking the lead over the veterans who honestly should have been shown them newbies their place. Bu tby mid-year 3, it was humming again. The 4th year was a last minute reprieve for the series, which was cancelled by the end of the third. Prodicers changed and the focus went a little kerflooey. However, the final episode remains not only legendary, but depressing as hell.
Paul Darrow was honestly the saving grace when the show was at its lowest level. When he passed, I was so sad to learn he lost his legs to illness a few years earlier. However, he made an apprarance on a UK quiz show and he was still in positive spirits. I loved him.
As for the Guardian showing Earth's past and not Vulcan's, why would it? All but one member of the landing party was human. Why would the guardian offer to show only Spock's planet rather than the majority of the people there? And they didn't have enough time for a long assed tour through history.
I never liked the idea that Kirk would sacrifice his ship and the lives of uncounted milions in favor of saving one life. Watching Kirk rip himslef to shreds knowing what he must do and momentarily forgetting that, enough so Spock has to yell "No Jim!" makes him human. He can't watch it happen, he buries his face into Bones' shoulder. It's a beautiful scene.
Blakes 7: I just did a full series re-watch a few months ago. I always loved that series. A bit of a rough start, honestly, but once it hit its stride, it was unbeatable. It lost a few steps in the third year and with new characters coming in and seemingly taking the lead over the veterans who honestly should have been shown them newbies their place. Bu tby mid-year 3, it was humming again. The 4th year was a last minute reprieve for the series, which was cancelled by the end of the third. Prodicers changed and the focus went a little kerflooey. However, the final episode remains not only legendary, but depressing as hell.
Paul Darrow was honestly the saving grace when the show was at its lowest level. When he passed, I was so sad to learn he lost his legs to illness a few years earlier. However, he made an apprarance on a UK quiz show and he was still in positive spirits. I loved him.
Appropos of nothing but head canon says: You fire a phaser on overload and you and the phaser disintegrate.
Also...what the **** kind of design lets you go straight to overload by turning the wheel in the wrong direction??
Now that I think about it...the whole phaser on overload thing is wacky.
Also...what the **** kind of design lets you go straight to overload by turning the wheel in the wrong direction??
Now that I think about it...the whole phaser on overload thing is wacky.
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