Chivalry: It's dead, Jim.

[Daedalus12]

I don't ride trains that often but I do open the doors for ladies. So no you are not alone.

And you wouldn't for a man ? If not, why not ? That's the gist of this thread.

Well if my guy buddies are walking along with me to a hypothetical door. Whoever gets there first will open the door and walk in while propping it up. This is how it usually goes down.

For a very old man or a disabled man who is struggling to walk I would prop up the door also.

As to why I would open the door for ladies but not just any man? Well I always pick up the tabs on dates as well. If we want to bust a tradition then perhaps we should start with the ones that affect our wallet the most.

 

[TheBrew]

Are you kidding me? Me wanting to offer my seat to a woman is the same as keeping them from voting?

Are you fucking kidding me?

The two things are fruit from the same tree. You're treating them as dainty little flowers that need to be wrapped up in cotton wool to protect them from the world.

That's the same patronising attitude that makes people think they shouldn't be able to vote.

That's a hell of a large leap in logic.

I think I know what it is... it's misdirected anger from the death of Carol Danvers. Cheer up, Hermy. She's coming back!

 

[Tim]

Wow, did this thread just get napalmed or what?

"It smells like...chivalry."

 

[Hermiod]

No. I'm referring to the one he jumped into this thread with. Which is about the same one as you are using now.

Exhibit A:

Unbelievable. No wonder some folks can't get a date.

After reading the cynical, self centered remarks in this thread, I agree.

Exhibit B:

Name six.

J'accuse!

And since when is being sociable and open nonsense?

It's nonsense based on you apparently not having used public transport much. Doing what you suggest would just as likely get you a date with the the transport police as the woman in question.

That is insane! I'm not trying to protect them from anything. I'm offering them a fucking SEAT.

I'm in awe. I really am.

You're following traditions without understanding them. Nobody is saying being polite is a bad thing, we're just asking why you only do it for women. What did men do to you to make you not value us as much as women ?

 

[Rii]

I believe we've already covered that. I see no need to repeat myself when you could just read the thread.

Right, you're unable to justify your behaviour on the basis of anything other than "tradition", and you refuse to acknowledge either the roots of that tradition or the role your behaviour plays in perpetuating patriarchy at the expense of women's rights in society. Gotcha.

I think I see some women over there trying to vote, perhaps you should remind them of "tradition".

Are you kidding me? Me wanting to offer my seat to a woman is the same as keeping them from voting?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Not of the same degree, no, but it's the same argument: "It's how we're used to doing things."

There's nothing wrong in admitting that your actions are the product of cultural prejudices with no rational basis. It's true of each of us in various ways. However if you're going to defend your actions on the basis that they make you a better person, don't be surprised when those who don't share your idiosyncrasies are less than charitable in reply.

 

[Captain Ice]

Well if my guy buddies are walking along with me to a hypothetical door. Whoever gets there first will open the door and walk in while propping it up. This is how it usually goes down.

For a very old man or a disabled man who is struggling to walk I would prop up the door also.

Which is quite as it should be. But why not just hold it open because someone is approaching the door?

 

[Hermiod]

I think I know what it is... it's misdirected anger from the death of Carol Danvers. Cheer up, Hermy. She's coming back!

Carol Danvers don't need no train seat. And that Thunderbolt bitch flying around in her clothes is going down.

Seriously, though - if I'm really the bad guy in a thread where An Officer is making comments about random people for not having much luck with women then so be it. I'm used to being the pantomime villain.

 

[Freakness]

As to why I would open the door for ladies but not just any man? Well I always pick up the tabs on dates as well. If we want to bust a tradition then perhaps we should start with the ones that affect our wallet the most.

i agree. unless you're dating an unemployed woman (which is fine) then she should be able to pay for a date just as easily as you can. or split the bill. or take turns paying. why not?

 

[Tiberius Jim]

That is insane! I'm not trying to protect them from anything. I'm offering them a fucking SEAT.

I'm in awe. I really am.

You're following traditions without understanding them. Nobody is saying being polite is a bad thing, we're just asking why you only do it for women. What did men do to you to make you not value us as much as women ?

I do it for women because that's how I was raised. That a gentleman treats a woman with a higher level of respect. I've watched my dad treat my mom like a queen growing up, so I learned how to treat women from him. My dad taught me to open a door for a lady, pull a seat out for a lady, and offer my seat to a lady. I don't do it out of pity because I think women are weak and need to be sheltered, I don't do it to get laid. I do it because that's how I was raised, and it's a courteous thing to do.

I'm sorry that you apparently haven't had an example like I and many other men have. You can all stick with what is "rational" and "fair" and "deserved". I'll stick with doing what I was raised and taught to do, and that's treat women with respect.

 

[Daedalus12]

Well if my guy buddies are walking along with me to a hypothetical door. Whoever gets there first will open the door and walk in while propping it up. This is how it usually goes down.

For a very old man or a disabled man who is struggling to walk I would prop up the door also.

Which is quite as it should be. But why not just hold it open because someone is approaching the door?

Before I was talking about opening doors for a lady who is walking with me which is different from propping up the door for a person behind you who is also going through the door.

For the latter situation if the action doesn't require me to go back then I would prop up the door for almost everyone. Otherwise I would only go out of way if I see a disabled person.

 

[Hermiod]

I do it for women because that's how I was raised. That a gentleman treats a woman with a higher level of respect. I've watched my dad treat my mom like a queen growing up, so I learned how to treat women from him. My dad taught me to open a door for a lady, pull a seat out for a lady, and offer my seat to a lady. I don't do it out of pity because I think women are weak and need to be sheltered, I don't do it to get laid. I do it because that's how I was raised, and it's a courteous thing to do.

I'm sorry that you apparently haven't had an example like I and many other men have. You can all stick with what is rational and fair and deserved. I'll stick with doing what I was raised and taught to do, and that's treat women with respect.

The problem here is that you don't question the reasons why you were taught that, where those beliefs came from. The roots of those beliefs come from a society that did not respect women, that denied them the right to vote and a many other things that women take for granted today.

 

[Rii]

I do it for women because that's how I was raised. That a gentleman treats a woman with a higher level of respect. I've watched my dad treat my mom like a queen growing up, so I learned how to treat women from him. My dad taught me to open a door for a lady, pull a seat out for a lady, and offer my seat to a lady. I don't do it out of pity because I think women are weak and need to be sheltered, I don't do it to get laid. I do it because that's how I was raised, and it's a courteous thing to do.

I'm sorry that you apparently haven't had an example like I and many other men have. You can all stick with what is "rational" and "fair" and "deserved". I'll stick with doing what I was raised and taught to do, and that's treat women with respect.

You were doing alright until that last paragraph. So men who consider those possessing a vagina to be our equals rather than delicate creatures to be shielded from the world and the various challenges associated with education, voting, employment and standing in an aisle don't respect them?

 

[Daedalus12]

The problem here is that you don't question the reasons why you were taught that, where those beliefs came from. The roots of those beliefs come from a society that did not respect women, that denied them the right to vote and a many other things that women take for granted today.

I don't think we need to question it though. We can keep those knowledge in our brains for trivia nights at the local bar but I think if the worst parts of that tradition has been left behind then it's best not to think about it too much.

 

[Kelthaz]

I do it for women because that's how I was raised. That a gentleman treats a woman with a higher level of respect. I've watched my dad treat my mom like a queen growing up, so I learned how to treat women from him. My dad taught me to open a door for a lady, pull a seat out for a lady, and offer my seat to a lady. I don't do it out of pity because I think women are weak and need to be sheltered, I don't do it to get laid. I do it because that's how I was raised, and it's a courteous thing to do.

I'm sorry that you apparently haven't had an example like I and many other men have. You can all stick with what is "rational" and "fair" and "deserved". I'll stick with doing what I was raised and taught to do, and that's treat women with respect.

I'm with Rii -- you were doing so well until that last paragraph. It's that holier-than-thou attitude that's rubbing a lot of us the wrong way. You treat women with respect and we don't? You look down on us for not treating women like royalty? You don't see why some of us find that rude?

 

[Tiberius Jim]

Right, because when I say "I respect woman so I offer my seat." you somehow hear "I don't think women should vote, work or go to school."

That's a totally reasonable extrapolation.

 

[TheBrew]

I think I know what it is... it's misdirected anger from the death of Carol Danvers. Cheer up, Hermy. She's coming back!

Carol Danvers don't need no train seat. And that Thunderbolt bitch flying around in her clothes is going down.

Seriously, though - if I'm really the bad guy in a thread where An Officer is making comments about random people for not having much luck with women then so be it. I'm used to being the pantomime villain.

I wasn't try to paint you as a villain, just trying to defuse the thread a bit by having a bit of a laugh with you about the current Ms. Marvel situation. I am looking forward to an epic fight.

Frankly, I think people shouldn't have to explain their nice actions. Honestly, who really cares what "deep seated psychological" reason Flux has for offering a seat to a woman? I would rather people be nice for possibly miss-guided reasons than be mean for proper reasons. To me, it's the same as religion: if a person does nice things, I don't really care if it is because of their religion, I care that they do nice things.

It's not like he is being mean to young men if he doesn't offer him the seat. Doing a nice deed to 50% of the people is better than doing a nice deed to 0% of the people.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Chivalry may be dead, but it looks like self-righteousness is alive and well.

 

[Captain Ice]

I do it for women because that's how I was raised. That a gentleman treats a woman with a higher level of respect. I've watched my dad treat my mom like a queen growing up, so I learned how to treat women from him. My dad taught me to open a door for a lady, pull a seat out for a lady, and offer my seat to a lady. I don't do it out of pity because I think women are weak and need to be sheltered, I don't do it to get laid. I do it because that's how I was raised, and it's a courteous thing to do.

I'm sorry that you apparently haven't had an example like I and many other men have. You can all stick with what is "rational" and "fair" and "deserved". I'll stick with doing what I was raised and taught to do, and that's treat women with respect.

You were doing alright until that last paragraph. So men who consider those possessing a vagina to be our equals rather than delicate creatures to be shielded from the world and the various challenges associated with education, voting, employment and standing in an aisle don't respect them?

I fail to see where you get this from what he actually said in that last paragraph. If anything, he's treating them with a higher amount of respect than he treats another guy, not insinuating that anyone else doesn't treat them with respect period.

 

[Hermiod]

Right, because when I say "I respect woman so I offer my seat." you somehow hear "I don't think women should vote, work or go to school."

That's a totally reasonable extrapolation.

You're not understanding us. The thinking that made men treat women that way also made them think women were incapable of voting, working or being properly educated.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

I do it for women because that's how I was raised. That a gentleman treats a woman with a higher level of respect. I've watched my dad treat my mom like a queen growing up, so I learned how to treat women from him. My dad taught me to open a door for a lady, pull a seat out for a lady, and offer my seat to a lady. I don't do it out of pity because I think women are weak and need to be sheltered, I don't do it to get laid. I do it because that's how I was raised, and it's a courteous thing to do.

I'm sorry that you apparently haven't had an example like I and many other men have. You can all stick with what is "rational" and "fair" and "deserved". I'll stick with doing what I was raised and taught to do, and that's treat women with respect.

You were doing alright until that last paragraph. So men who consider those possessing a vagina to be our equals rather than delicate creatures to be shielded from the world and the various challenges associated with education, voting, employment and standing in an aisle don't respect them?

I fail to see where you get this from what he actually said in that last paragraph. If anything, he's treating them with a higher amount of respect than he treats another guy, not insinuating that anyone else doesn't treat them with respect period.

Exactly!