Charlie X - Rewatch and Review
- Thread starter KevinGrem
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Charlie's overall treatment of the non-Rand women certainly borders on misogynistic. Uhura (two incidents), Lawton, and three nameless others....
Charlie preferred the class of yeoman Rand I'm sure! 
JB
JB
Because Uhora's singing is annoying, and Charlie's way of silencing her was understandable and perfectly timed. If she doesn't like being shut up then maybe she should not start up in the first place.
And this post is a much more diplomatic and respectful way of expressing that opinion. But it's actually "Uhura."
Kor
There's nothing intolerable about Uhura or Nichelle! 
JB
JB
Yes, I don't like sexism, but people should really listen, before voicing righteous outrage over sexism about some remark.
The last woman he knew was his mother, and he may have all but forgotten her by now. Combine that with his confusing feelings he's never had - he never crushed on any of the Thasians. As I recall, he didn't treat men very nicely either, despite being one himself. He's a little boy still in many ways.
What Charlie goes through is perfectly natural and normal, and any teenager probably has experienced something similar.
To be honest men these days get treated like shit because of feminism. We have to constantly restrain our sexual urges, and women are allowed to dress as provocatively as they want, expecting men just to ignore their bodies and our most primitive instincts. It's really insane just how much feminism has screwed up humanity. I don't condone rape of any sort, but let's be fair minded here: Women have to bear some degree responsibility if they go out in public dressing like sluts and whores and something bad happens to them because of it. Something is seriously, seriously wrong with our culture.
To be honest men these days get treated like shit because of feminism. We have to constantly restrain our sexual urges, and women are allowed to dress as provocatively as they want, expecting men just to ignore their bodies and our most primitive instincts. It's really insane just how much feminism has screwed up humanity. I don't condone rape of any sort, but let's be fair minded here: Women have to bear some degree responsibility if they go out in public dressing like sluts and whores and something bad happens to them because of it. Something is seriously, seriously wrong with our culture.
Too bad the Thasians didn't have access to a child-rearing manual if such things were stored on Charlie's parents transport.
Charlie is dealing with late teenage-year hormones without having had the proper human social context to know how to behave appropriately. Add to that his uncanny powers, and it's a recipe for disaster.
There's so much that's problematic about this off-topic rhetoric that I don't even know where to begin. I think I'm done with this thread.
Kor
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I can agree with some of your post Kevin! Men are expected to restrain themselves and even not mention how they find a woman attractive these days! It's called PC (Politically Correct) and it stinks to high heaven! The Benny Hill show is virtually banned here in the UK these days! To be honest though, women where I live don't dress provocatively and look and act more like men than the actual men do! 
JB
JB
I will preface this by saying I'm not a behavioural scientist and base my ravings on articles I've read in New Scientist, so i hope i don't come across as a total dick, but I do think it is alarming when men declare feminism as some kind of negative societal trait. I think it speaks more to society's inability to bring up our male children in ways that adapt to increased equality. Machismo causes more fights, more wars, and more death than anything else. Less is very much more going forward - Trump vs Kim being very much in the public eye.
If you want to boil human behaviour down to animal instincts and urges then you should try to understand that female behaviour is driven as much by biological instincts as men. The women dress 'provocatively' because on some level, they wish to appear attractive potential mates (like bird plumage). A lot of make-up application is designed to imitate sexual attraction (darker lips, flushed cheeks, darker eyes due to pupil dilation etc). However, they also wish to CHOOSE from the potential mates that they attract because, on an instinctive level they desire a complementary immune system, a mate who seems like he will provide assistance to the offspring's future (e.g. wealth), a healthy genetic legacy (e.g. physically fit), an ability to defend offspring (e.g. machismo), an ability to adapt (e.g. intelligence), and somebody who is likely to stick around (e.g. compatible personality). Not all women want all these things all the time or all at once and many women may dress purely to increase their own confidence rather than as any direct conscious intention to attract a mate. They are certainly, not doing it to mate with the first troglodyte that comes along. [like I'm an expert ;-/. ]
It's childish to suggest that 'feminism' is to blame for women actually getting some say in who they choose as a partner or are we suggesting that treating women like chattel in Elaan of Troyus is something we (i.e. men, because I'm fairly certain the women would not vote for this and we foolishly gave them the vote) desire as a society? If we are, you'd better hope you have cash and power or you'd still be no better off. If I recall correctly, the noble dude who wanted to marry Elaan betrayed his ruling council and ended up dead because he didn't have what it took.
Grace Lee Whitney persuaded Gene to switch trousers for mini-skirts as a symbol of women's empowerment. With hindsight, this had the opposite effect but hey ho it did give Trek one of its most iconic images that certainly helped its longevity. Persis Khambatta lobbied for the shorter bath robe to show off her legs. I'm sure she thought this might increase the popularity of the movie and increase her popularity and earning capacity as a performer/model but she was not suggesting it to directly attract a mate.
Obviously, men who fall for this diabolical tactic may be frustrated if they are not deemed suitable to be a mate for said women. They simply need to back off and find someone who does deem them to be a suitable mate. Such is life. Plus, a sense of entitlement is usually a very unattractive trait so be prepared to be disappointed a lot if you can't control this.
Case in point, poor Charlie thinks that Rand's efforts to make him feel welcome are a direct effort to attract him because he lacks the experience and emotional maturity to understand otherwise and back off. This is a mistake that many men make about many women. He also has the worst case of tunnel vision that the worst stalkers can develop.
It's a shame that Rand was written as such a passive character that she was often a victim and rarely allowed to orchestrate her own 'rescue'. The story might have more modern resonance if she had been better able to prove her own self-determination. I do like that she was too 'mature' for him but that this didn't put him off. I like the fact that the women in TOS were not tweenagers.
If you want to boil human behaviour down to animal instincts and urges then you should try to understand that female behaviour is driven as much by biological instincts as men. The women dress 'provocatively' because on some level, they wish to appear attractive potential mates (like bird plumage). A lot of make-up application is designed to imitate sexual attraction (darker lips, flushed cheeks, darker eyes due to pupil dilation etc). However, they also wish to CHOOSE from the potential mates that they attract because, on an instinctive level they desire a complementary immune system, a mate who seems like he will provide assistance to the offspring's future (e.g. wealth), a healthy genetic legacy (e.g. physically fit), an ability to defend offspring (e.g. machismo), an ability to adapt (e.g. intelligence), and somebody who is likely to stick around (e.g. compatible personality). Not all women want all these things all the time or all at once and many women may dress purely to increase their own confidence rather than as any direct conscious intention to attract a mate. They are certainly, not doing it to mate with the first troglodyte that comes along. [like I'm an expert ;-/. ]
It's childish to suggest that 'feminism' is to blame for women actually getting some say in who they choose as a partner or are we suggesting that treating women like chattel in Elaan of Troyus is something we (i.e. men, because I'm fairly certain the women would not vote for this and we foolishly gave them the vote) desire as a society? If we are, you'd better hope you have cash and power or you'd still be no better off. If I recall correctly, the noble dude who wanted to marry Elaan betrayed his ruling council and ended up dead because he didn't have what it took.
Grace Lee Whitney persuaded Gene to switch trousers for mini-skirts as a symbol of women's empowerment. With hindsight, this had the opposite effect but hey ho it did give Trek one of its most iconic images that certainly helped its longevity. Persis Khambatta lobbied for the shorter bath robe to show off her legs. I'm sure she thought this might increase the popularity of the movie and increase her popularity and earning capacity as a performer/model but she was not suggesting it to directly attract a mate.
Obviously, men who fall for this diabolical tactic may be frustrated if they are not deemed suitable to be a mate for said women. They simply need to back off and find someone who does deem them to be a suitable mate. Such is life. Plus, a sense of entitlement is usually a very unattractive trait so be prepared to be disappointed a lot if you can't control this.
Case in point, poor Charlie thinks that Rand's efforts to make him feel welcome are a direct effort to attract him because he lacks the experience and emotional maturity to understand otherwise and back off. This is a mistake that many men make about many women. He also has the worst case of tunnel vision that the worst stalkers can develop.
It's a shame that Rand was written as such a passive character that she was often a victim and rarely allowed to orchestrate her own 'rescue'. The story might have more modern resonance if she had been better able to prove her own self-determination. I do like that she was too 'mature' for him but that this didn't put him off. I like the fact that the women in TOS were not tweenagers.
I've been writing a TMP-era comic for YouTube featuring Rand as part of the ensemble and I find that she does lend herself very readily to role of victim. It almost feels like natural story-telling to evoke the protective instincts of Kirk. I loved that Star Trek Beyond destroyed this trope when Spock comes to rescue Uhura, he finds that she's already rescued herself. It was a knowing nod to the sexism of the earlier movies and the era in which TOS was written.]
I find I have to take a deep breath and say, ok, how can Rand, as a trained senior non-com, take steps to get herself out of this? Hopefully she will then come across as a more interesting character. It is, however, quite tough
I find I have to take a deep breath and say, ok, how can Rand, as a trained senior non-com, take steps to get herself out of this? Hopefully she will then come across as a more interesting character. It is, however, quite tough
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What the actual Hell? This kind of posting is completely inappropriate. Sexist victim-blaming and objectification of other people is definitely not cool. Consider this your one and only friendly warning.
I can agree with some of your post Kevin! Men are expected to restrain themselves and even not mention how they find a woman attractive these days! It's called PC (Politically Correct) and it stinks to high heaven! The Benny Hill show is virtually banned here in the UK these days! To be honest though, women where I live don't dress provocatively and look and act more like men than the actual men do!
JB
A fair number of your posts are borderline drooly and pervy.
You don't want to post like that, you want to go home and re-think your life.
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