Characters' Mistakes - "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK".
- Thread starter LJones41
- Start date
Stupid mistakes are fun and all to discuss... but this seems like an oddly specific axe to grind? Were we in here enjoying Empire Strike Back too much without questioning it? I didn't notice.
Chewie and Han repairing the Falcon at Echo Base, leaving the weapons off line for the movie always seemed like a bad move to me. But then it made for some terrific chase scenes through the asteroids.
Chewie and Han repairing the Falcon at Echo Base, leaving the weapons off line for the movie always seemed like a bad move to me. But then it made for some terrific chase scenes through the asteroids.
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Well for one thing Luke's mistakes are central to both the plot and his character arc, no? It's kind of built-in to the whole movie.
What mistake did Leia, Han & Chewie make though? Sticking around in the command centre too long trying to help people? Not taking off the pay his debts sooner? Choosing to take that whole thing apart while Han was trying to get them out of there?!
What mistake did Leia, Han & Chewie make though? Sticking around in the command centre too long trying to help people? Not taking off the pay his debts sooner? Choosing to take that whole thing apart while Han was trying to get them out of there?!
Why doesn't the OP list some character mistakes by each of the mentioned characters to start off the conversation?
There's a reason why ESB is my least favorite OT film. Not sure this is one of them.
Because we're too busy slagging the Last Jedi off.
Really though - what are the specific mistakes that bother you?
Because I don't care
Interesting - why is it your least favourite? It's usually most people's number one in the OT. I think ANH is mine but it's very, very close between that and ESB.
That is a big one, contrivance and/or character stupidity. Especially if you follow the official timeline that three years had passed.
An uncharitable but reasonable interpretation is that Han had decided to just not pay Jabba, Jabba was just a criminal thug anyway, until the bounty hunter incident changed his mind.
ANH is my top, and ROTJ just eeks out ESB. It's largely a tonal thing for me, with ESB having that much darker tone and a lot more unpleasantness to it that is not as fun to revisit for me.
Now, that isn't to say it isn't a well put together movie. It has some of my favorite Han moments of the franchise, the asteroid chase, and some new environments. The music is top notch.
However, the lightsaber battle is overlong, Han and Leia's chemistry is a mixed bag for me, and the Rebel storyline is pretty much abandoned.
Overall, I think the first two acts are pretty good but the third tapers for me.
Now, this is reversed for me with ROTJ where I think the first act is rather overlong but picks up in the second act.
You're assuming of course that his debt to Jabba was Han's only debt. It's entirely possible that he had several more pressing creditors after him post-ANH and those are the ones he paid off with most of the reward money. Actually, now that I think about it, he specifically says he has "some old debts" plural, and the one to Jabba seems relatively recent and thus, rather less urgent.
It's not much of a reach to think that three years spent with the Alliance didn't afford him very many profitable opportunities. Which is probably why he was planning on leaving at the start of ESB. Not to pay Jabba, but to find a job that'll earn him enough to pay off Jabba.
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You're getting your panties in a twist over me using bold to highlight the titles of films? Oh brother.
I'm talking about even before the release of "The Last Jedi".
And I'm referring to Han and Chewie's failure to notice that the Falcon was being followed by Boba Fett for a period of time. It didn't exactly take the Falcon a few days to reach Bespin, considering that the ship's hyperspace drive wasn't working. I'm referring to the fact that neither Han, Leia or Chewie never wondered how Vader and the Empire had reached Bespin before them. I'm referring to Luke's impulse to leave Dagobah and race to Bespin to save his friends. And I'm referring to Chewie's attempt to kill Lando, while the latter was trying to help them escape . . . and Leia's obvious support of Chewie's murder attempt.
They only need quotes or italics.
They also just said that they "didn't understand." How is that "getting panties in a twist?"
OK. Content for a discussion. I'll take these blow by blow.
1. How is that a character mistake? How do you know that Slave I wasn't jamming the Millennium Falcon's sensors? The fact that they didn't notice they were being followed is evidence that Fett was doing something to avoid being detected.
2. The film doesn't say how long it took to get from the Anoat system to Bespin.
3. Huh?!? Until they saw Vader, they thought they had escaped the Empire. When they saw Vader, Boba Fett walked out, and it was easy enough to determine that Boba Fett had tracked them. We don't know exactly when Vader arrived. We only know that stormtroopers got there first. That's more evidence, by the way, that it took more than just a short time for the Falcon to reach Bespin. There's not only no character mistake here, there's no error of any kind.
4. The reason was given in the film. Luke didn't want to sacrifice his friends. That's not a character mistake, by the way. That's Luke acting in-character. Luke made a choice to try to be the hero and rescue his friends. If Luke hadn't come, there's no way for us to know what would have happened, but it couldn't have been good for Leia. For one thing, Vader wouldn't have been busy confronting Luke, and he would have been freed up to confront Leia, Lando, and Chewie as they tried to escape.
5. If Chewie had wanted to kill Lando, he would have snapped his neck instantly. There was no murder attempt and again no character mistakes.
0/5.
That's a pivotal step in Luke's character development. Sure, one can call it a mistake, but it's the writers intent for it to be a mistake so that it can have meaning and consequence for Luke.
None of these things are mistakes. In ANH, Han said 'there's another ship coming in' right before the TIE fighter came at them from behind. Clearly Slave 1 was either hanging back enough to avoid detection, was jamming their scanners, or had some other anti-detection technology, because he's a bounty hunter, following people undetected is probably one of this dude's number one skills.
They never needed to wonder why the empire had beat them to Bespin, they had clearly been set up, and as their Hyperdrive was broken it's pretty simple to see that the Empire beat them there with ease. I don't see any mistake here.
Luke's impulse to leave Dagobah might have been a mistake in terms of his Jedi training, but rushing to help his friends is not a mistake, it's a noble thing to do. If he hadn't have gone what do you think would have happened? Leia, Chewie and Lando would have probably been captured. Bottom line is Luke distracted Vader enough for the others to escape at the very least.
As another poster put, I'm sure Chewie could have killed him instantly if he wanted to - remember Han's line about how 'it's not wise to upset a Wookie', and how they can pull people's arms out of their sockets? What do you think he's capable of doing to Lando's neck? He could have ripped his head off if he wanted to. As presented in the film Chewie was angry and clearly trying to scare the shit out of him.
I know you hate people slagging the prequels off - I've read enough of your posts on this board to support this (I happen to love them) but trying to point out faults that don't exist in the OT (and probably the best written film out of the three too) isn't going to change people's opinions.
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This thread has answered that question to perfection, but probably not in the way you hoped.
But Jabba was the one who already put a big price on his head, set bounty hunters after him, in ANH already. Although that's kind of retroactively ignored in Empire, the threat seeming and being talked about as recent.
That's possible, I've heard that interpretation before (especially with the idea that Han's reward money got stolen and the Rebels wouldn't pay again). That would make him a big liar in RotJ, when he tells Jabba he'll pay him triple, he's throwing away a fortune, which I don't think was the intention but oh well.
