Chakotay's Rank

[Picard Alpha]

1) In the TNG Companion, they confirm that Ro was making a veiled reference to Chakotay.

2) Tuvok was a lieutenant in the early days of Voyager yet wore lieutenant commander pips. Then they fixed the pips to reflect his rank of lieutenant. THEN he was promoted to lieutenant commander not long afterward. Yeah, you'd think he was demoted but the events were so far apart that it makes no sense.

3) Finally, I always interpreted Chakotay's rank in "Caretaker" to be commander as in he's the guy in charge of the fuckin' ship, hence the reason the Maquis all called him commander. Didn't have anything to do with rank; the maquis didn't care about ranks. So Janeway made him a commander and her XO. Yeah, Cavit was a lieutenant commander too, but that has nothing to do with Chakotay.

I'm affraid that I must refer back to Chakotay's rank pips and references available at http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/VOY/character/1112391.html and http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Chakotay. "Following the destruction of the Val Jean in the Delta Quadrant, Chakotay and his crew joined Voyager's crew.
Chakotay was granted the provisional rank of lieutenant commander] and became Voyager's first officer. Chakotay accepted Kathryn Janeway as captain, and embraced Starfleet ways. : "Caretaker")

Any way theres no indication that Janeway promoted him above his last held Starfleet rank. It's common for first officers to hold the rank of Lt. Commander. Picard picked "A Young Lt. Commander" to be his first officer, and Captain Janeways original first officer was a Lt. Cmdr. Now, I always beleived he was a full Commander until recently... That's one of the reasons I started this thread, to get to the bottom of it. I don't know if we ever really will know but on screen I can't recall him ever being refered to as "Lt. Commander". We do know it's common for Starfleet Lt. Commanders to be refered to as "Commander." See any episode with Data, LaForge, or Worf in DS9.

Let's not forget the season one rank errors with both Tuvok and Paris.

Yet another Voyager mystery.

 

[AlxxlA]

I always thought that Janeway gave Chakotay back his LCDR rank because it was his rank... From there he promoted and assigned as necessary. Given that Voyager was mostly Ensigns and crewmen, the department heads needed only to be LtJG's and above (Except for poor Harry... who should have been promoted). It seems obvious that after Tuvok, Paris was next in line for command, so he needed to be either a Lt or a LtJG... either works for me

But isn't the issue that Chakotay was given a provisional rank, instead of a field commission, despite the fact that he had served in Starfleet, as had Tom Paris, who WAS recommissioned as a LtJG.

 

[Unicron]

The only real reason for giving the Maquis provision rank insignia was to tell them apart. Throughout the show there was nothing to really separate them from the Starfleet crew, so I just ignore it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I have watched thousands of episodes of Voyager (You know what I mean.) and I have never heard the word "provisional rank badge". It's just something I bumped into in my encyclopedia one afternoon...

Remember how Matt Decker got demoted from Captain to Commander because the job of XO was for a Commander and not a Captain? Lt Commander Cavit was the XO on a little ship with a tiny crew called Voyager. the Job was not for a commander so Chakotay was kinda demoted to be eligible for the position.

 

[Captain Proton]

I know in the real military a Second Lieutenant and First Lieutenant is usually just called 'Lieutenant', Lieutenant Colonel and Colonel, 'Colonel', and Staff Sargeant, Gunny Sargeant, and Sargeant are all 'Sargeant' informally.

 

[mvkemp]

Maybe, because Tom was officially working for Starfleet on the original mission of Voyager, than Janeway had a bit more latitude when dealing with the rank question. Chakotay, despite being a LtCdr or whatever, was still technically considered a criminal and definitely not working for Starfleet but just happened to be along for the ride, so Janeway just had to give him the Maquis-pip just like everyone else who came from the Maquis ship.

 

[Caprica6]

I think it was just a goof with the rank bar. In the opening credits he is called Commander. Tuvok who is a Lt. Commander in the credits is refered to as Lt. Commander.

 

[Deks]

I was under the impression Janeway did it for the following reasons:

She wanted to unite both StarFleet and Maqui crews, thus providing the Maqui with virtually the same opportunities, and of course giving them an opportunity to exhonorate themselves for when they get home.

Voyager initially lost officers during it's transition to the DQ, and since both Janeway and Chakotay agreed that they should be a SF crew, Janeway felt it would be best to reinstate ranks of people who left SF originally for the Maqui but were officers prior to that (the best example of this decision is Chakotay). A similar thing happened for those who went through 'some' SF training (like Torres ... but she was more of a special case if anything really due to urgings of Chakotay who knew what she was capable of).

Paris also had a rank before he left SF, joined the Maqui and was incarcerated. Janeway merely re-instated his initial rank and gave him a field promotion after seeing his initiative of taking over the helm in battle and helping in protecting the ship.
She was unable to do so with Kim because he was fresh out of the Academy with little to no experience of his own.

 

[Guy Gardener]

B'Elanna didn't make it out of the Academy and she was quickly promoted to chief engineer and lt junior grade... Something Kim couldn't achieve after seven years of coasting.

 

[Caprica6]

B'Elanna didn't make it out of the Academy and she was quickly promoted to chief engineer and lt junior grade... Something Kim couldn't achieve after seven years of coasting.

The difference was that B'Elanna proved that she was a good engineer and Chakotay fought for her. Harry was


well Harry was Harry

 

[Hermiod]

I think it was just a goof with the rank bar. In the opening credits he is called Commander. Tuvok who is a Lt. Commander in the credits is refered to as Lt. Commander.

As has been pointed out, they made loads of those kind of goofs over the years. Check out Data in "All Good Things". Specifically, "Encounter at Farpoint"-era Data. IIRC, he's got two hollow rank pips and one gold one, a combination we've never seen before or since and certainly not what he had in "Encounter at Farpoint" which is what they were supposed to be recreating.

 

[Deks]

B'Elanna didn't make it out of the Academy and she was quickly promoted to chief engineer and lt junior grade... Something Kim couldn't achieve after seven years of coasting.

The point is B'Elanna had 'some' Academy training despite dropping out and was a great engineer with experience under her belt (something which Chakotay knew and fought over with Janeway who later on became convinced of).
Besides, a chief engineer must have a higher rank than those who work under her/him ... that is why I initially stated she was a special case and why Janeway gave her a high rank (due to Chakotays urgings and circumstances).
Kim on the other hand was posted on Voyager as part of his first assignment and had no experience in the field prior to that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It may have been his first posting as an Ensign, but Cadets get plenty of hands on practical work in the field. Just look at Nog. Meanwhile there is some speculation that Spock might have still been a cadet in the original Pilot with Pike, and he looked like he ran the ship.

Harry was a section chief. I know it's never been explained, but how many people did he have working under him in his department? And can we believe that his job with so unchallenging that only enlisted folkes fulled out his seat when he was off cheating on Libby while double dating with the Delaney sisters and Tom?

The Boothby said...

BOOTHBY: What'll you have, son? I'm a single malt man, myself. Aged two hundred years. Been saving it for a special occasion, and I'd say this is special enough. A toast. To Earth. Chakotay. Rank, Commander. Starfleet service number forty seven alpha six one two. First officer, USS Voyager.

Is there any chance we missed a series of promotions and demotions with Chuckles which happened between episodes since there were times that there should have been some consequences for some of quite stupid and quite glorious actions?

 

[Caprica6]

B'Elanna didn't make it out of the Academy and she was quickly promoted to chief engineer and lt junior grade... Something Kim couldn't achieve after seven years of coasting.

The point is B'Elanna had 'some' Academy training despite dropping out and was a great engineer with experience under her belt (something which Chakotay knew and fought over with Janeway who later on became convinced of).
Besides, a chief engineer must have a higher rank than those who work under her/him ... that is why I initially stated she was a special case and why Janeway gave her a high rank (due to Chakotays urgings and circumstances).
Kim on the other hand was posted on Voyager as part of his first assignment and had no experience in the field prior to that.

and Kim realy didn't do anything to make himself stand out, he didn't realy do much to earn a promotion.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He held a hydrospanner for Seven of Nine while she built Astrometrics.

 

[Caprica6]

It may have been his first posting as an Ensign, but Cadets get plenty of hands on practical work in the field. Just look at Nog. Meanwhile there is some speculation that Spock might have still been a cadet in the original Pilot with Pike, and he looked like he ran the ship.

Harry was a section chief. I know it's never been explained, but how many people did he have working under him in his department? And can we believe that his job with so unchallenging that only enlisted folkes fulled out his seat when he was off cheating on Libby while double dating with the Delaney sisters and Tom?

The Boothby said...

BOOTHBY: What'll you have, son? I'm a single malt man, myself. Aged two hundred years. Been saving it for a special occasion, and I'd say this is special enough. A toast. To Earth. Chakotay. Rank, Commander. Starfleet service number forty seven alpha six one two. First officer, USS Voyager.

Is there any chance we missed a series of promotions and demotions with Chuckles which happened between episodes since there were times that there should have been some consequences for some of quite stupid and quite glorious actions?

Service number forty seven alpha six one two

 

[DanCPA]

They did get some things wrong in their recreation... maybe this was one of them.

 

[Deks]

He held a hydrospanner for Seven of Nine while she built Astrometrics.

Actually, Kim was responsible for successfully merging Borg and SF technologies with 7 of 9 by creating the Astrometrics lab. Both of them had their hands in the project, so both are equally responsible more or less.

But prior to 7 joining the crew, Harry didn't really do anything overly important or bold really.
Despite Harry being Chief of Operations and his knowledge, the problem lied in the fact he had no field experience prior to Voyager, nor did he portray any natural tendencies deserving of promotion.
There are some people who would be able to do certain jobs even without experience, but Kim was a regular 'green faced fresh out of the Academy cadet' who needed some experience, and didn't get it until later seasons.
Torres on the other hand was experienced, and of course Janeway couldn't only have a token first officer.

 

[kimc]

He held a hydrospanner for Seven of Nine while she built Astrometrics.

Actually, Kim was responsible for successfully merging Borg and SF technologies with 7 of 9 by creating the Astrometrics lab. Both of them had their hands in the project, so both are equally responsible more or less.

But prior to 7 joining the crew, Harry didn't really do anything overly important or bold really.
Despite Harry being Chief of Operations and his knowledge, the problem lied in the fact he had no field experience prior to Voyager, nor did he portray any natural tendencies deserving of promotion.
There are some people who would be able to do certain jobs even without experience, but Kim was a regular 'green faced fresh out of the Academy cadet' who needed some experience, and didn't get it until later seasons.
Torres on the other hand was experienced, and of course Janeway couldn't only have a token first officer.

This was Harry's first posting but before Seven joined the crew he was usually the one on the bridge with a new idea. Janeway had even referred to him as one of the "bright spots" of the journey in the episode "Twisted".

 

[DanCPA]

...and of course Janeway couldn't only have a token first officer.

So, she had 2 token officer instead
I'll agree with what you said about Harry, but it's also true that as time went on, he did mature into becoming a good solid officer. I see nothing wrong with Janeway promoting Kim to LtJg and putting him on par with other senior officers on Voyager during the 4th season!