Chakotay and Janeway romance

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

All excellent points.

And here we have a description of Chakotay's response to Janeway's death in the books. I believe he flirted with the idea of killing himself if only by stupid wallow quests out in the elements. It is quite a shocking contrast with Mark's response to Janeway's death:

A more dependant man would have killed himself, a slightly less dependant man would have wallowed in grief for 20 years

It seems that..

Alpha men are attracted to Janeway (Mark, Kashyyk)

Beta men are attracted to Janeway (Chakotay, Work Force guy)

Gamma men are attracted to Janeway (the EMH, see butt feeling fantasy) and

Omega men are attracted to Janeway (Barclay wasn't just obsessed with the ship).

EVERYONE is attracted to Janeway and Greek letters just let us put them in boxes so she can sort through them at her leisure and pick out what she wants.

 

[R. Star]

I'm not attracted to Janeway.

 

[Lynx]

There should have been a "happy end" between Chakotay and Janeway in the last episodes of the series!

 

[Captain Kathryn]

I'm not attracted to Janeway.

Then she will be forced to use her pheromones on you.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm not attracted to Janeway.

[yoda] You will be.. you will be. [/yoda]

 

[Guy Gardener]

The older I get, the better she looks.

When this all started, I thought she looked just like Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies.

 

[freak]

I had always thought that Janeway and Chakotay were perfect for each other and had wanted them to get together so badly! I hated the fax that they didn't get together in Endgame and instead he went to a damn Borg drone! GRRR!! I remember myself being so angry at the time that I threw something at the TV set! But it's good to know that it was kind of pursued a bit more in the novels.

 

[Scoobysnacks]

Mark was already remarried in less than 4 years, and he wouldn't give her dog back.

A more dependant man would have killed himself, a slightly less dependant man would have wallowed in grief for 20 years then died of a broken heart, a yet still more slightly less dependant man would have divorced or murdered his new wife upon finding out that Kathryn was still alive... And so on.

4 years is quick.

If he wasn't hitting on women at Kathryn's funeral, pulling prime tottie using lines about needing consolation that worked so well, he then crashed every funeral for all 150 crewmen to keep his wick wet for the next 2 years.

4 years is far too quick.

Mark must have been already having an affair with at least one woman when Kathryn was lost in space.

How is 4 years too quick? It would be if you were on Voyager trying to get home to a spouse, maybe, because you know you're alive for pete's sake, but they thought Voyager was missing and presumed lost, right? No idea they were in the Delta Quadrant until years later? At the very least after a couple years your friends and family are gonna be trying to get you out of your funk and at least dating again.

I'd heard remarriage rates were different for men vs. women after losing a partner to death so I googled it. (Assume instead of just his fiancée, we were talking wife just for the sake of argument.) According to a study in the Annals (take a moment to giggle) of Clinical Psychiatry: "Men are more likely to repartner after losing their spouse; more than 60% of men but less than 20% of women are involved in a new romance or remarried within just over two years of being widowed." So it wouldn't be weird if he'd been remarried 2 years later. I would be less shocked if Libby were still waiting for Harry. I'd love to know what Ensign Wildman's husband is up to, frankly. Might have an interesting situation there.

PS. About the dog, assuming it was a young enough dog, most of its life is with Mark and now Mark's family. It sucks to be Janeway, but if she's thinking about the best thing for Mollie/Molly, it's probably to stay with Mark. Maybe come by, visit just to feel like you've got pet closure and the reward of coming home, and then let her go. I bet the dog would be happy to see her, but it's not fair to confuse dogs about who's their owner and where home is. Maybe if she's still having litters, give Janeway one of the puppies.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'd heard remarriage rates were different for men vs. women after losing a partner to death so I googled it. (Assume instead of just his fiancée, we were talking wife just for the sake of argument.) According to a study in the Annals (take a moment to giggle) of Clinical Psychiatry: "Men are more likely to repartner after losing their spouse; more than 60% of men but less than 20% of women are involved in a new romance or remarried within just over two years of being widowed."

Of course they are, they need someone to take care of the kids. And no I am not just being flippant I've seen it happen several times (so therefore, is true).

As to our fictional friends.. possibly you wait longer if you're actually married like Wildman's husband. Janeway was only engaged which is basically saying it's not time to get married yet so it is a step down as far as commitment goes.

Were the crew declared dead?

 

[Guy Gardener]

EMH: They'd taken over the Prometheus, the ship I was on, but I managed to turn the tables on them with help from a fellow EMH.
CHAKOTAY: You got through to Starfleet?
EMH: I spoke directly with headquarters. Apparently, Voyager was declared officially lost fourteen months ago. I set the record straight. I told them everything that's happened to this crew. They said they would contact your families to tell them the news and promised that they won't stop until they've found a way to get Voyager back home. And they asked me to relay a message. They wanted you to know you're no longer alone.
JANEWAY: Sixty thousand light years seems a little closer today.

Meanwhile...

CHAKOTAY: No thanks. You haven't mentioned your letter. Who was it from?
JANEWAY: It was from Mark, the man I was engaged to. He told me about the litter of puppies my dog had, how he found homes for them, how devastated he was when Voyager was lost, how he held out hopes we were alive longer than most people did until he realised that he was clinging to a fantasy. So he began living his life again. Meeting people, letting go of the past. About four months ago he married a woman who works with him. He's very happy.
CHAKOTAY: How do you feel about that?
JANEWAY: Well, I knew he'd eventually move on with his life, but there was such a finality to that letter.
KIM [OC]: Kim to the captain. Can you come to the bridge?

I guess wedding planning in the future where money doesn't exist, things are different. But if you're going to do a wedding right in the present, it takes a minimum of 2 years because everywhere you would actually want to have your ceremony and reception probably happens to have been booked for the last two years, ditto two years plus for all the bells and whistles.

Maybe Mark and his missus are dead inside and merely went to the registry, knocking the whole thing out in an afternoon?

2 years to plan and execute a wedding?

What a tosser.

Although with a (free) global transporter in effect, you'd have to be off world or in hospital to be actually have a decent excuse to avoid a wedding you thought it best to shy away from.

So my calculation was this...

Grieving + meeting a woman + Courtship + stability + proposal + engagement/planning an extravagant wedding + wedding + X amount of time since they were married (4 months according tot he quote) until Janeway comes back into the picture making demands.

4 months before Hunters is during the Dominion Occupation of Bajor, that sort of impending doom is going to cut though a lot of civil red tape. The Federation LOST Deep Space Nine. "Ghadzooks!" Mark must have thought as he decided that it was time to go find himself a woman. "If I'm going to die today, I'm going to be doing it while I die!"

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Weddings are stupid.

Okay maybe if everything is free they are less stupid, but I bet most of them are still horrible bloated events with terrible food.

The real question though is what would he have done if he found out Janeway was alive before he attached himself to the new woman? And what if he found out she was alive when attached but not yet married?

 

[Guy Gardener]

They'd been married 4 months. There's no way those two wacky kids are not still in escrow.

Engaged for ten years vs. married for 4 months.

C'MON!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Where does it say they were engaged for ten years?

 

[propita]

Maybe Mark and his missus are dead inside and merely went to the registry, knocking the whole thing out in an afternoon?

Gee, thanks, Guy!

My husband and I went to the county registrar recorder to get married, with my parents as witnesses. We had no money for a big wedding while Hubby was in school and we had lived together for nine years already. I don't think we were dead inside!

The officiant asked us what we were doing next. We said (honestly), "We're going to Disneyland!" Since we were in Norwalk (LA County Registrar), Disneyland was pretty close by and we had dinner reservations at Club 33.

A big fancy wedding wasn't our style. Small and slightly askew is us.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sorry.

But someone owes you a fancy recommitment ceremony for one of your anniversaries, or an equal weight in chocolate... Of course sexism aside, maybe you owe your husband a fancy recommitment ceremony, I'm assuming, now that together you have money.

Did you watch the last seasons of Drew Carey? Near the end he says "Suck it Fate! One year from today I WILL GET MARRIED!" even though he had no woman in his life, he just wishes, fantasizes, actualizes for the next 24 episodes that at some point before the priest says "Do you take this woman" that a woman who loves him earnestly will magically appear, and he will live happily ever after.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Where does it say they were engaged for ten years?

That book Jeri Taylor insists is canon said that they were childhood friends, and had many adventures together as adults, but I'm really just guessing how long between the end of the first novel when Mark broke out of the Friendszone and when the ship was lost.

So, in my ass is where it's said.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mark_Johnson

Mosaic finishes it's story about Mark in 2359, so Jeri is in agreement with my bum.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In that case.. THAT JERK.

 

[propita]

Sorry.

But someone owes you a fancy recommitment ceremony for one of your anniversaries, or an equal weight in chocolate... Of course sexism aside, maybe you owe your husband a fancy recommitment ceremony, I'm assuming, now that together you have money.

Did you watch the last seasons of Drew Carey? Near the end he says "Suck it Fate! One year from today I WILL GET MARRIED!" even though he had no woman in his life, he just wishes, fantasizes, actualizes for the next 24 episodes that at some point before the priest says "Do you take this woman" that a woman who loves him earnestly will magically appear, and he will live happily ever after.

Remember the show "Brooklyn Bridge"? Cute show. Armin Shimmerman had a guest/recurring role as a cousin. He tells the Bubbe that he's going to get married. She asks, "Do you have someone in mind, or are you just starting out?" Honestly, I thought that was a good, and kinda sweet, way to put it.

Sometimes, people just realize it's time for them to settle down, or that they're ready to settle down, and are ready to look for "the one."

No, not the B5 "The One." Valen's not involved.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't like weddings or big fancy ceremonies of any kind. There are like a gazillion things I don't like about them, but especially weddings. Yes it can be done better, simpler.. but the usual sort where you pay a whole bunch of strangers to make a whole bunch of crap from the substandard reception food to the dress to the invitations, all of which has a hugely hijacked price because of the word "wedding" afixed to the front of it.. blech. And I'm just not big on public spectacle. One of my relatives had a wedding that cost over 30,000. Awful. The whole OMG this is my special day thing.. gadzooks.

Rant over.. and I do enjoy looking at pics of people's Star Trek weddings

 

[Guy Gardener]

I love other people's wedding receptions, but not as much as I loved them as a child.

SUCH FUN!

A drama starring Marion Ross? I adore that woman. Growing up I wanted to push Howard down an elevator shaft, and take her for my own. I don't know how Fonzie resisted her allure? He lived above her garage for frakks sake!

IMDB says that Armin was only in 4 episodes.

But no, I have no recollection of this show ever existing.