Chakotay and Janeway romance

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Okay I am now going to take time out from my very important posting frenzy in the Star Trek XI+ forum to explain to you all why Chakotay/7 works. For personal background in case anyone hasn't noticed I have always been J/7 and I have never been a Chakotay fan (other than saying he's good to look at). So I should be puking over C/7.

Chakotay is perfect for 7. Not perfect for the long term but perfect for where she is right now. He's kind, he's thoughtful, he's attracted to strong women and he will never hurt her. She is deeply wounded and unsure of herself as far as relationships and Chakotay has the patience, empathy and natural desire to dote on her that she needs. .....

What does Chakotay get out of it? As we know strong women are his thing, but this time he gets to be the strong man as well because 7 needs him. She's kick ass but she's vulnerable. He can give more to her than Seska ever needed or wanted. She may not show her appreciation but as she grows more comfortable in being in a relationship I think Chakotay will see her blooming and feel that he is appreciated. It will be an important relationship for both of them and while it will not last (and doesn't in the books) they will part with no animosity and with a gratitude for the time they spent together.

Ok...that was a good argument for C/7.

But I still don't like it!

Yes, Teacake... you should still puke!

As you point out, Seven needs a therapist, not a lover.

What does he get out of it? Besides great "arm candy" can SHE realistically support HIS emotional needs? If all he "needs" is to be in the orbit of a strong woman what will happen when this man gets cut free from the younger woman who no longer "needs" his kind of therapy? After living in the shadow of unrequited (?) love for 7 years and then having/losing Seven (according to your scenario) will he just resign the game and retire to a monastery?

I've know a lot of couples over the years where one of them is very happy in the orbit of a stronger person, the examples I'm thinking of are all stronger women with doting man in orbit. And of course we've had millennium of literature with the opposite portrayal. Though I make fun of Chakotay I don't think this relationship pattern is in itself dysfunctional for everyone. If his comfort zone is of being a carer that's fine. 7 is incapable of taking advantage of that, probably his biggest struggle will be getting her to accept the care in the first place, as it sometimes is with Janeway.

As to what happens to him afterwards, well I'll go with the books.. he breaks up amicably with 7 and he and Janeway hook up. Hopefully now that no one is dead any more they will drop the Chakotay nervous breakdown storyline and everything will work out.. but I think she will always be the alpha partner and he will always be in a carer role who relishes being in orbit. And maybe in the 24th century that's no longer a subject for mockery.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They described it well in How I met your mother. Every relationship is made up of two types a people, a reacher and a settler. One is reaching for someone out of their league and the other is settling for someone who tries really hard to make it work.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The expectation for healthy relationships these days is that everyone is as equal as possible, equal meaning an even distribution of goals, chores, fulfillment and sacrifices. This makes a lot of good relationships look unbalanced even though it may be working out just fine for the people in them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Equal means that they don't need each other because they're both fantastic. I've seen this. Basically separate lives and then they sleep sexlessly in the same bed. Or equal means that they're both complete fuck ups helping the other drown faster in whatever combined shitstorm the two of them are generating.

Absolute equality seems like an unlikely find.

Forcing equality on an inferior is asking for trouble.

Dragging someone down a couple level seems unfair too.

Healthy??

**Snigger**

Lets go cornhole a unicorn while we're at it.

 

[Brit]

As to what happens to him afterwards, well I'll go with the books.. he breaks up amicably with 7 and he and Janeway hook up. Hopefully now that no one is dead any more they will drop the Chakotay nervous breakdown storyline and everything will work out.. but I think she will always be the alpha partner and he will always be in a carer role who relishes being in orbit. And maybe in the 24th century that's no longer a subject for mockery.

Actually from the female view point right now in romantic literature, the beta male (think accountant, wears glasses, isn't physical) has a lot of fans. I know that there are a lot of fan fic authors that write Chakotay as the "alpha" male type, but I find nothing wrong with the "beta" Chakotay we saw most often on Voyager.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Alpha? Beta? What about the Sigma or Theta?

 

[R. Star]

Chakotay was plenty Alpha in Caretaker. Honestly I think Jeri Taylor just toned him way back because she didn't want him stealing Janeway's spotlight.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Actually from the female view point right now in romantic literature, the beta male (think accountant, wears glasses, isn't physical) has a lot of fans. I know that there are a lot of fan fic authors that write Chakotay as the "alpha" male type, but I find nothing wrong with the "beta" Chakotay we saw most often on Voyager.

I would never personally go above beta

Chakotay was plenty Alpha in Caretaker. Honestly I think Jeri Taylor just toned him way back because she didn't want him stealing Janeway's spotlight.

He looked good in those leathers too.

 

[Brit]

Alpha? Beta? What about the Sigma or Theta?

I don't think those have been classified yet LOL. The Alpha/Beta Hero is much discussed in some circles.

http://heroineswithhearts.blogspot.com/2011/03/beta-male-vs-alpha-male-romance-stakes.html

and Teacake, I never liked him so much in the leather pants LOL. I also liked his early series crew cut with the honest gray hair.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I liked the crew cut too Brit!

As to rankings past Alpha and Beta I found this:



It seems I only make it as high as Gamma in the attraction game. The Betas are too much for me

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Chakotay is definitely Beta if that chart is anything to go by.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Despite whatever coping mechanisms these people use to impersonate genuine human emotions anyone who joins a terrorist organization and starts killing their former friends family, allies, neighbours and government officials, they are an automatic Omega.

If before Meld, there had been a catastrophic loss of senior officers, Lieutenant Lon Suder would have become Captain before Harry did.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So you agree then that Chakotay is utter fail for Janeway. Good.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So, what made Mark The perfect mate?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Lovely beta man, good with dogs.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You've read Jeri's novel all about him, and you still call him a Beta?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I have completely forgotten everything in that novel. I only remember one tiny bit from its sequel and that was about 7 of 9.

What did he do? Did he wield the pooper scooper inappropriately?

 

[Guy Gardener]

He was the childhood friend that stood by her side at ever turn.

When Mark was younger, he went by his middle name "Hobbes".

It was a huge reveal at the end.

"I think I'd prefer it if you called me Mark from now on."

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I do recall that reveal now.. but are you saying he's not the beta in orbit he appears to be when he skypes her?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Mark was already remarried in less than 4 years, and he wouldn't give her dog back.

A more dependant man would have killed himself, a slightly less dependant man would have wallowed in grief for 20 years then died of a broken heart, a yet still more slightly less dependant man would have divorced or murdered his new wife upon finding out that Kathryn was still alive... And so on.

4 years is quick.

If he wasn't hitting on women at Kathryn's funeral, pulling prime tottie using lines about needing consolation that worked so well, he then crashed every funeral for all 150 crewmen to keep his wick wet for the next 2 years.

4 years is far too quick.

Mark must have been already having an affair with at least one woman when Kathryn was lost in space.