Chakotay and Janeway romance

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Patrick gets what he wants by making people want to look after him.

Neither of you understand how Patrick wears the pants.

Is it like this adorable picture of Rodney on the couch?

 

[Guy Gardener]

You're Australian. Pants should not naturally mean undies/boxers to you. Stop autotranslating into Americanese when you don't have to!

Have some dang selfrespect!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I never auto translated! I didn't know pants meant boxers/undies!

I was only talking about how the supine and disheveled Rodney on the crappy couch makes me want to take care of him and now I'm wondering if this is all a pants plan on Rodney's part which as we all know eventually was gold because he got Kaylee for himself.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In that picture, Rodney is in his boxers which are underwear which Americans call "pants".

(Why are we calling him Rodney?)

 

[Gov Kodos]

In that picture, Rodney is in his boxers which are underwear which Americans call "pants".

(Why are we calling him Rodney?)

No we don't. Underwear are not called pants. Pants would be what the Brits call trousers. Underpants, though, would be what Rodney is wearing. The style is called boxers. Women's underwear is usually called panties, though.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In that picture, Rodney is in his boxers which are underwear which Americans call "pants".

I usually just think about removing them rather than the nomenclature.

(Why are we calling him Rodney?)

Because it is a photo of the great and adorable Rodney McKay.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Every other time you've posted that picture of your lover I've just seen what he is wearing as "shorts" and it has only dawned on me now that that is pornography.

(What episode is that from?)

Did you make your way through Rodney on Traders?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm pretty sure it is from SG:A Home. And yes, those are boxers and so more underwear than shorts.

I haven't watched Traders yet, I had a Rodney hiatus for a while (actually it was a man hiatus but Rodney was a casualty) but now I'm BACK and that may well be my next non-sci fi time sink after I finish the pleasant comedy I'm currently watching.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What is the pleasant comedy you are watching?

(Right this second I'm working my way through the unaired episodes of Don't trust the bitch in Apartment 23, which the network dumped online today, since they were losing too much money airing it on tv.)

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Parks and Rec with some It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia on the side. Almost up to date with the former.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Good stuff.

I'm onto the Britcom "Not Going Out" now.

In Shattered we found out that Kathryn and Chakotay get drunk together, but we think nothing ever happens.

Is that because they don't get drunk enough or because they get paralytic?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Chakotay should have broke out the peyote. All he'd have to do is say "my people" a few times and talk about his dad and she would have taken it, especially if he called it a herb.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Peyote is made form cactuses... That's a fricking big herb.

(Truthfully the world's largest Herb is the banana.)

The Klingons got stoned on camera a couple times, right?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

You grind it into powder. No one has to see what it looked like before.

I thought Klingons limited their imbibing to drink? We don't get to see anything else because the only time we see smoking in Star Trek as far as I can remember is Talbot in V. If they weren't so uptight about showing smoking (yeah we know humans have evolved past it..) I bet there would be heaps of scenes where people speculated that it wasn't straight tobacco.

Was there smoking in that bar Worf went into with the round lady singer singing Klingon opera?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It was Unification. Bar is hazy but I am doubting we see anyone directly smoking. I'm still thinking Talbot was the only example.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwhBUSB1iXg[/yt]

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm thinking of room stoning from sweat lodges perhaps, like when Worf was trying to summon a vision of Kahless, but pulled the real thing.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Oh all that chanting and meditating oneself into a delusional/spiritual state. Boring.

Half of that was probably not enough oxygen with all the coals burning in a confined space.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Too many damn Bobbies.

Bobby Picardo was of course married, so he was out of bounds and a perfect gentleman.

WTF I've seen every episode of Voyager, most many times over and I never realized there are indeed THREE Roberts. I feel so stupid for not realizing that before LOL. I usually call McNeil "Bobby", Robert Picardo... well, Robert Picardo. Beltran I just call Beltran. I seriously should have realized that months ago... what the heck!

...

Kate Mulgrew was against the first female captain "sleeping with her crew", but I don't think she realized that the character didn't have to just sleep around... Janeway and Chakotay could have had a long, deep, meaningful relationship. Even if they stuck it in during the end of Season 7, it would have been a more logical progression than C/7.

.

There was a name protocol on set...


Robert = Beltan,


Robby = McNeil


Bob = Picardo


and for reasons that escape me...


Johnny = Ethan Phillps

C/7 never makes sense, don't even try to understand it.

[
She won't have a meaningful relationship with someone on her crew, but she was willing to sleep with a hologram in Fair Haven??? Nothing against holograms (the Doctor is my favorite), but UGH. I believe Chakotay genuinely cared for Janeway.

The Fair Haven hologram is just a pretty vibrator with a charming accent.

I actualy asked the male actor that very question at a con... which caused quite a few twitters among the audience as you might expect. (Thank god "Twitter" hadn't been on the scene in 2001)

He actually gave an insightful response to my "naughty" question which I appreciated quite a bit.

Okay I am now going to take time out from my very important posting frenzy in the Star Trek XI+ forum to explain to you all why Chakotay/7 works. For personal background in case anyone hasn't noticed I have always been J/7 and I have never been a Chakotay fan (other than saying he's good to look at). So I should be puking over C/7.

Chakotay is perfect for 7. Not perfect for the long term but perfect for where she is right now. He's kind, he's thoughtful, he's attracted to strong women and he will never hurt her. She is deeply wounded and unsure of herself as far as relationships and Chakotay has the patience, empathy and natural desire to dote on her that she needs. .....

What does Chakotay get out of it? As we know strong women are his thing, but this time he gets to be the strong man as well because 7 needs him. She's kick ass but she's vulnerable. He can give more to her than Seska ever needed or wanted. She may not show her appreciation but as she grows more comfortable in being in a relationship I think Chakotay will see her blooming and feel that he is appreciated. It will be an important relationship for both of them and while it will not last (and doesn't in the books) they will part with no animosity and with a gratitude for the time they spent together.

Ok...that was a good argument for C/7.

But I still don't like it!

Yes, Teacake... you should still puke!

As you point out, Seven needs a therapist, not a lover.

What does he get out of it? Besides great "arm candy" can SHE realistically support HIS emotional needs? If all he "needs" is to be in the orbit of a strong woman what will happen when this man gets cut free from the younger woman who no longer "needs" his kind of therapy? After living in the shadow of unrequited (?) love for 7 years and then having/losing Seven (according to your scenario) will he just resign the game and retire to a monastery?



As much as I don't want Mulgrew to be "right", I fear in this instance she it correct. Not because J/C is inherently wrong, but it would give too many people too much ammunition to degrade our Captain OR our First Officer.

Look at the contention up thread that only worthwhile men can dominate the woman... so if Chak comes out "on top" Janeway is diminished... and if Janeway comes out on top Chakotay is diminished.

Even withOUT sleeping with her he's considered a whipped dog by many, despite standing up to her frequently in season 1& 2, disputing her in season 3's finale, going against her wishes in season 6 and getting demoted for same. Did Riker ever do that to Picard?

J/C, however, will always live in my heart and my fanfic, and thankfully in certain youtube vidder's works.

 

[Jeri]

Btw, Robert Duncan McNeill is "Robbie," like the good Scotsman he oughta be. No confusion.

Edit: oh, I see someone beat me to it.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

You've made the point just a few times before! While I don't completely agree with it, you definitely articulate the argument well and make some good points. My main beef with the Seven/Chakotay relationship is they just threw it at us with no buildup whatsoever and expected us to find it believable. The Paris/Torres relationship works because hey... it was a bumpy road with a lot of foreshadowing and build up to it.

Suddenly throwing it in at the end of Season 7 with no buildup is the main reason I don't like it. In addition to my personal preference of Janeway ending up with Chakotay.

We agree an awful lot despite the fact I'm often critical of Janeway's decisions and you're an avid fan!

Don't get me wrong, Paris/Torres are not an obvious match. But we see the buildup to it on screen and can see that "Hey, they made that work despite it all."

Chakotay and Seven? Well we get one episode of Seven with a holo Chakotay(who is more life like than the real one) and that's about it before they're lovey dovey.

Chakotay and Janeway? They do have a past to build upon. Resolutions hinted enough at that, though Scorpion did seem that their friendship may be more platonic. Though... being the Janeway critic I am... one disagreement... "Well I guess I am alone." End of romance.

They made up at the end though. I think everyone is allowed to have some rough patches. It was nice to see the usual "I'll bend over and take it" Chakotay and Janeway finally having some problems. I mean, Tom and B'Elanna had problems all the time, but that didn't mean they didn't love one another. Also...other than Scorpion, I think in Equinox they had a way worse fight...also she confined him to quarters. They made up at the end kind of, but for me that was a worse argument than in Scorpion. Janeway turned into a vengeful crazed maniac in that episode though...so I can't blame Chakotay for opposing her in that episode.

At least in Scorpion, we got this scene:
CHAKOTAY: I want you to know that disobeying your orders was one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do.
JANEWAY: I understand, and I respect the decision you made even though I disagree with it. What's important is that in the end, we got through this together. I don't ever want that to change.

Also... don't forget there was some chemistry demonstrated in episodes following like in Year of Hell when he used a bunch of replicator rations to make her that watch. And then again in Shattered, when they had their little private party in her room. :P Even though Chakotay claimed there were "lines they never crossed"...still...they had innuendo in that episode.

Holo-Chakotay was the ONLY thing we ever got before Endgame signaling anything resembling a C/7 pairing. And Chakotay was not even there or aware of it, so it barley counts. It only showed Seven's side of the story. Then we see nothing regarding it until Endgame where it's thrown in as a last resort.

Chakotay and Janeway have a fairly long history of friendship and almost-romance to build off of. Plus, I think she deserved to have someone to love and to love her back at the end, after all they had been through together... I mean... I will never stop believing there was something between them that was just not acted upon on the show. I will choose to regard the events in the most recent novels as my own personal canon.

And yes Paris/Torres was not an obvious match in the beginning, but they built it up over SEVERAL SEASONS and they went through a lot of rough patches and scuffles. I really liked their relationship and thought they had good chemistry.