CBS says it CANNOT go forward with ANY new Trek series?

[CorporalCaptain]

A bit of information

On Facebook - Star Trek's official page is "liked" by about 3.5 million people.

Compare that to the FB pages for the following established (been on TV for more than three seasons) scripted shows on CBS that finished in the top 15 in ratings during the last rating period.

#1 in ratings: Big Bang Theory - 32.3 million FB "likes"
#2 in ratings: NCIS - 17.5 million FB "likes"
#7 in ratings: Criminal Minds - 15 million FB "likes"
#9 in ratings: 2 Broke Girls - 12.2 million FB "likes
#11 in ratings: NCIS LA - 4.3 million FB "likes"

What are some of the shows that fill in the blanks?
Scorpion - a procedural
Mom - a sitcom
The Odd Couple - a sitcom
Mike and Molly - a sitcom

So even though Star Trek has been an established cultural phenomenon for almost 50 years, it still does not have the social media pull of a sitcom about two girls working at a diner that takes a mere pittance to make.

Studios pay attention to such things, you know.

Oh, by the way - the Star Wars FB page has 14 million likes

Glad you included the bit about Star Wars' Facebook page. That puts it into somewhat better perspective. I claim SW is way more popular than TBBT, so any notion that Facebook Likes are a strong indicator of overall popularity at large, or whatever, would basically seem to be proven false here (not that you were claiming it was). It does tell us something about what people like who use Facebook, however, clearly.

Not that that means that ST has some massive fanbase off such social media radar, because it doesn't, not like SW.

Now, this is just me talking out of my ass, but I would expect that a sizable chunk (undefined term) of those Likes for ST are primarily due to nuTrek. By that I mean, if nuTrek hadn't happened, that number would be a lot lower.

All that said, I'm kinda surprised that ST is as close to "the top ten" as it apparently is. It's not dominating anything, but it's in there. Go nuTrek!

 

[SPCTRE]

Oh boy, these kinds of threads keep delivering.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Oh boy, these kinds of thread keep delivering.

How so?

 

[JoeZhang]

Ended speculation based on unverified and unprovable claims from people who have an interest to not being put in a position of saying "CSB said no, not ever"?

 

[OpenMaw]

All that said, I'm kinda surprised that ST is as close to "the top ten" as it apparently is. It's not dominating anything, but it's in there. Go nuTrek!

I'll say this, I don't think those 30 million+ viewers that TNG used to enjoy just vanished off the face of the Earth. I think they got tired of the stupid bullshit as Trek started to go downhill. DS9 had a shakey start, Voyager was somewhat aimless and repetitive until 7of9 showed up. This pushed a lot of those less enthusiastic viewers to other shows. I don't think it was just other competition. If your show is really damn good, people will watch it. They will find the time.

The big reason JJ Abrams Trek has pulled in good numbers, and i'm not slamming it here, is that Trek has been gone for awhile, and this is "new and exciting" people will give anything new and exciting a chance, and that's the creators one shot to really get people to stay, or within more accurate film parlance, to come back for the sequels.

I think the same is true of a TV Trek show, and that's also why in terms of what you'd do with Trek on TV, playing it safe is probably the best bet. Kirk, Spock, Bones, The Enterprise, adventures with a modernized story telling format that combines both episodic adventure with character driven arcs.

 

[The Transformed Man]

No. The reason for Trek's decline in ratings over years is general audiences have a limited appetite for sci-fi, and genre TV tends to go through ebbs and flows. By the time TNG ended its run the show was already shedding viewers, and when DS9 hit the air waves there was a glut of sci-fi/genre shows in syndication... Eventually audiences had had their fill... so the bottom fell out; multiple popular genre shows saw steady massive declines in viewership.

Finally, Trek's move to UPN, a wanna-be network that had a hard time maintaining local TV partners, and a network which seemed to try to reinvent itself every two seasons, was the coup de grace.

Fanboys tend to lose sight of this. The simple fact is that despite the accolades a show like BSG received during its run, and even subsequent reruns on NBC, the show never caught on with general audiences, and was routinely beat by Enterprise week in and week out to the tune of some 1-2 million viewers.

But Trek had long ago run its course with general audiences... there was simply too much Trek between multiple TV shows, and movies. That's the audience that disappeared.

Simply look at the box office returns of First Contact, a film which is considered to be one of the best Trek films by critics, audiences, and fans... even that film could only muster $92 million at the box office (which would equate to $168 million today). You would think a film centering on the TNG cast featuring the villains of the show when TNG was at its apex (in terms of viewership) could generate bigger numbers.

The reality is Trek just has a limited shelf life appeal with general audiences. Even NuTrek, while performing well, isn't blowing away the adjusted numbers of Wrath of Khan ($217 million in today's box office) or Voyage Home ($234 million in 2015)... It's basically performing like the better received trek films did back in the day... the numbers just look gaudy when you compare TWOK in 82 ($79 million) and TVH ($134 million). There's little evidence, outside of international box office (which is far more important today than it was in the past), that NuTrek is driving more within the general audience to interest in Trek.

And that's not really a criticism about NuTrek (which I generally like), that's more of a criticism about Paramount's expectations. Trek simply will never be a internation or domestic "tentpole" franchise like Transformers, Marvel, Harry Potter, etc.

Yancy

 

[Jedi_Master]

No. The reason for Trek's decline in ratings over years is general audiences have a limited appetite for sci-fi, and genre TV tends to go through ebbs and flows. By the time TNG ended its run the show was already shedding viewers, and when DS9 hit the air waves there was a glut of sci-fi/genre shows in syndication... Eventually audiences had had their fill... so the bottom fell out; multiple popular genre shows saw steady massive declines in viewership.

Finally, Trek's move to UPN, a wanna-be network that had a hard time maintaining local TV partners, and a network which seemed to try to reinvent itself every two seasons, was the coup de grace.

Fanboys tend to lose sight of this. The simple fact is that despite the accolades a show like BSG received during its run, and even subsequent reruns on NBC, the show never caught on with general audiences, and was routinely beat by Enterprise week in and week out to the tune of some 1-2 million viewers.

But Trek had long ago run its course with general audiences... there was simply too much Trek between multiple TV shows, and movies. That's the audience that disappeared.

Simply look at the box office returns of First Contact, a film which is considered to be one of the best Trek films by critics, audiences, and fans... even that film could only muster $92 million at the box office (which would equate to $168 million today). You would think a film centering on the TNG cast featuring the villains of the show when TNG was at its apex (in terms of viewership) could generate bigger numbers.

The reality is Trek just has a limited shelf life appeal with general audiences. Even NuTrek, while performing well, isn't blowing away the adjusted numbers of Wrath of Khan ($217 million in today's box office) or Voyage Home ($234 million in 2015)... It's basically performing like the better received trek films did back in the day... the numbers just look gaudy when you compare TWOK in 82 ($79 million) and TVH ($134 million). There's little evidence, outside of international box office (which is far more important today than it was in the past), that NuTrek is driving more within the general audience to interest in Trek.

And that's not really a criticism about NuTrek (which I generally like), that's more of a criticism about Paramount's expectations. Trek simply will never be a internation or domestic "tentpole" franchise like Transformers, Marvel, Harry Potter, etc.

Yancy

Excellent post.

The only thing I have to add when discussing the enormous amount of viewers that previously watched Trek on television - American viewing habits have simply changed in the past 25 years. People watch shows online, on Netflix, and through other means. Shows that previously would have been pulled for "bad" ratings are now considered "hits". There will never again be 30 million people watching a single show during its original broadcast - the world just doesn't work that way anymore.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Folks - let's all face reality here.

If and when CBS feels that making a Star Trek series will be a good financial move, they will make it, and all those "top entertainment" attorneys will accrue some decent fees clearing any existing legal hurdles.

However, under no conceivable circumstance will that hypothetical TV series be based on a fan film or fan TV series or fan YouTube video. CBS will hire some high-caliber, experienced, well known talent to head up the production, write the pilot, and star in the show.

So we can sit around and theorize IF or WHEN the new series will be made, but fan productions will ALWAYS remain fan productions. Period.

P.S. if someone brings up 50 Shades of Grey I will use the Vulcan neck pinch on them.

This.

 

[stardream]

Excellent post.

The only thing I have to add when discussing the enormous amount of viewers that previously watched Trek on television - American viewing habits have simply changed in the past 25 years. People watch shows online, on Netflix, and through other means. Shows that previously would have been pulled for "bad" ratings are now considered "hits". There will never again be 30 million people watching a single show during its original broadcast - the world just doesn't work that way anymore.

Just thinking out loud here....Would it be possible for Netflix to produce a new Star Trek show?

 

[BillJ]

Excellent post.

The only thing I have to add when discussing the enormous amount of viewers that previously watched Trek on television - American viewing habits have simply changed in the past 25 years. People watch shows online, on Netflix, and through other means. Shows that previously would have been pulled for "bad" ratings are now considered "hits". There will never again be 30 million people watching a single show during its original broadcast - the world just doesn't work that way anymore.

Just thinking out loud here....Would it be possible for Netflix to produce a new Star Trek show?

Possible? Of course. They would either have to co-produce with CBS or pay for the right to make a new series.

Likely? I don't think so.

 

[JoeZhang]

Excellent post.

The only thing I have to add when discussing the enormous amount of viewers that previously watched Trek on television - American viewing habits have simply changed in the past 25 years. People watch shows online, on Netflix, and through other means. Shows that previously would have been pulled for "bad" ratings are now considered "hits". There will never again be 30 million people watching a single show during its original broadcast - the world just doesn't work that way anymore.

Just thinking out loud here....Would it be possible for Netflix to produce a new Star Trek show?

Yes... if CBS licensed it to them - is that likely? Never say never.

Is it more likely than "Hello I am a TOP ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER please consider our fan film... hello? hello?"

yes, infinitely.

 

[danielcw]

Just thinking out loud here....Would it be possible for Netflix to produce a new Star Trek show?

Yes... if CBS licensed it to them - is that likely? Never say never.

That's not how it works. Netflix, or almost no American broadcaster, does not produce shows themselfs.

CBS would produce a show for Netflix, and then Netflix would license the rights to stream it, and likely also all other rights, to have it as an exclusive.

To get a series on Netflix, or any other SVOD provider, both would have to work together.
Netflix would have to be willing to pay, and CBS willing and possible to produce.

 

[JoeZhang]

You are quibbling about semantics - my point is that a deal is more likely between these two bodies than the fantasy of CBS running with and developing a fan film.

 

[The Transformed Man]

Correct, ABC Television/Marvel Television Studios produce the Daredevil Netflix series. Netflix simply pays for the streaming rights. Given their close partnership, if CBS went the streaming route for Trek I think it would be more likely the show would wind up on Amazon's service.

 

[Campe]

Another thing to consider at the moment is that at present, there are over 400 live action tv shows currently on the air. Sure, that could mean that prior to the eventual bubble bursting, and all the reboots/continuations out there, you could think make the argument that this is the perfect opportunity for Trek's return.

I disagree. I say that many of these shows have a lower budget than something like Trek would need to do it correctly. Advertising dollars are spread out more and as stated before, product placement is not a great option for Trek.

Right now, it seems the world is more about quantity as quality. Don't mistake me, there's a lot more options. And it's allowed for creativity that's unrivaled. But how many scifi shows set in space are there these days?

 

[danielcw]

You are quibbling about semantics - my point is that a deal is more likely between these two bodies than the fantasy of CBS running with and developing a fan film.

I wasn't answering to your point, as you can see I did not even
quote your point. (and for the record I am agreeing with it)

I was just pointing out an error. You call it semantics, fine.
To me it is important to be as correct as possible. And if I ever make an error, I hope you or somebody else are there to point it out.
Very often I see wrong details in posts being repeated over and over, and that makes it difficult to actually find the right answer when one is looking for it.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I will believe any new series announcement when I see it. Regardless, I'm glad its not Renegades.

I just believe it builds a bad situation where a fan-run production becomes something official. I admit I'm being a little dramatic but I think it leans into the idea of negotiating with terrorists. Granted, yes, there are former Trek actors involved in Renegades but they are still fans. It is still independent. Everything I've seen or read of it screams of a fan production. Sure, CBS would reign it in but it's still one vision of what one relatively small group of fans want. I don't want that. I don't want the people at Star Trek Continues or Phase II or Axanar to dictate what the next Trek should be about. It's not that they're bad series. But maybe it's not the right idea for the millions of Trek fans out there. I don't want a continuation of the original series. We've been there. I certainly don't want Axanar. I like the idea (but I hate the overly religious fanbase) but I just don't think its all that much different of an idea than Deep Space Nine or the Abrams films have shown. I want something different. Not just a new coat of paint thrown on an old idea. And that's what the majority of fan films are. They can be good. And the ones that I mention are. But they aren't moving the story ahead.

Neither is simply moving the timeline ahead 100 years, adding a few letters to the Enterprise's registry and having the same archetypes we've had over five series. I'll be honest. If they can't do something new with the new series whenever it may come, I'm not going to watch.

I said this a long time ago on Facebook when someone threw out a new series idea that I tore to shreds and he asked what I thought a new series should be like. My response was and still is: "I don't know. And you don't either. It's up to people who are far more creative than you are or I am to come up with something to draw in an audience."

I will believe any new series announcement when I see it. Regardless, I'm glad its not Renegades.

I just believe it builds a bad situation where a fan-run production becomes something official. I admit I'm being a little dramatic but I think it leans into the idea of negotiating with terrorists. Granted, yes, there are former Trek actors involved in Renegades but they are still fans. It is still independent. Everything I've seen or read of it screams of a fan production. Sure, CBS would reign it in but it's still one vision of what one relatively small group of fans want. I don't want that. I don't want the people at Star Trek Continues or Phase II or Axanar to dictate what the next Trek should be about.

I said this a long time ago on Facebook when someone threw out a new series idea that I tore to shreds and he asked what I thought a new series should be like. My response was and still is: "I don't know. And you don't either. It's up to people who are far more creative than you are or I am to come up with something to draw in an audience."

^THIS. Also, I wish that these fans would just support the fan film that they like in particular, and leave the rest of us who like the Abrams films (which they hate and want to see destroyed in favor of series like this that they think are better than the Abrams movies) alone. What they want to see is quite old, outdated by now, and is not going to get anybody to see it if it were an official production (I'm sorry, but people like J.G. Herztler, Richard Hatch, etc would be considered fossils by now and not watched by anybody but these fans-their bashing of Chris Pine & Co. smacks of anti-youth ageism.)

I have this deep dark hidden fear of a series set at Star Fleet Academy showing up on the CW. I know. Its very frightening.

^*shudders* That is my nightmare.

I don't, and I think that such a concept, if written well, will work. It may have to be set in the Abrams era/epoch, but it will work.

If a new series were tied directly to the JJverse and films I am sooo not gonna be there.

Your privilege, and your choice-better make the right one, as that fan show that you like isn't going to be made into a TV show for whatever reason as stated by Campe98.

 

[Warped9]

^^ And I never expected or hoped for it to be. I simply stated that I would not watch an Academy based Trek series or one connected to JJtrek. I fully expect a new Trek series to be something new and if it's cool I'll watch. If not then not.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

At least, that's what he told everyone, including, sadly, NPR's All Things Considered.

Figures-NPR is losing it as a broadcaster.

I'm getting confused now - which one claimed that GR told him on his deathbed to keep the dream of Star Trek alive?

Depending on who you read, at the Axanar website's review/recap of the Renegades' premiere screening, it was Sky Conway.

In another review over at MovieHole, it was Ethan Calk.

Either way I strongly suspect these to be tall tales, and the difference between the two being solely due to the lazy hack bloggers pretending to be journalists not getting facts straight and mixing up the names in their articles.

That fits with said types of bloggers being responsible for a recent scandal in the video-game publishing industry.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Direct to streaming is, in my opinion the best option for a new Trek series. Releasing all the episodes of a single season at the same time would allow for some exciting story telling opportunities. I had heard that CBS has not been a big fan of streaming services, so that may be another roadblock for a new Trek series.