CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Sgt_G]

If only C/P would have sent Axanar a simple cease and desist all this nasty business could have been avoided. .... Yep, I'd sure like to hear why the C/P lawyers skipped right over the very 1st step.

Who says they didn't send such a letter?? As far as I know, we only have Alec Peter's word that he never received such a letter. Nobody else who should be in the loop has said squat about it, at least I've yet to see anyone say anything.

 

[bonesmccoy2014]

Slam dunk just for being C/P's sandbox at a minimum. Some of us always had concerns that social crowd funding would lead to this.

The attempt by some to confuse this matter by reviewing the legitimacy of Kickstarter, IndieGoGo or any of many other crowd funding sites is odd.

The cloud-based web application and its corporate host is NOT the signatory account holder.

The funds go through the web application and are aggregated in an account belonging to the individual or corporation raising the funds. Kickstarter and Indiegogo capture a percentage of the fund-raising transaction to pay for their cloud-based solution.

From what I read in Newsweek, the issue is that Axanar project leaders began paying themselves "salary". This is the issue.

 

[Indysolo]

Oh god, make it stop!

Neil

 

[bonesmccoy2014]

Who says they didn't send such a letter?? As far as I know, we only have Alec Peter's word that he never received such a letter. Nobody else who should be in the loop has say squat about it, at least I've yet to see anyone say anything.

Sir, you are asking innocent parties to demonstrate that they are innocent.
It would not be possible for those parties to make public statements if either (a) they had not received such communication from CBS or Viacom, or (b) they had received such communication but were requested to leave it off the record.

In both instances, there would be no statement and only compliance from those parties.
At the appropriate time, someone from those parties would make a statement regarding the termination of the project.

More important is that when fund raising is occurring actively, there would be no reason to continue fund raising if such a letter were received. The party receiving such a letter would do as Tommy Kraft did. He would pull the project and just tell CBS "thanks for the opportunity". NONE of the fan films that are legit are building their projects on revenue models. It's totally on the basis of volunteers and donations/financial gifts to fund.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

"There are also indications from Paramount that a fan appreciation event is pending in just a few weeks for Star Trek Beyond. There is also the news that the Intrepid Air & Space Museum in New York City is hosting the Enterprise orbiter and Galileo shuttle from Star Trek to unite the two objects in the same space. There is also the Star Trek Ultimate Voyage.

the Star Trek community should be celebrating the incredible mark of 50 years of entertainment in the same franchise. There are very few intellectual properties as significant as "Star Trek"

You know, yeah, I 'have' been sort of lost for the last four months as I've tried to understand, well first, what the heck is CBS/P doing to 'my' Axanar. Then after researching trying to understand what the heck is going on 'with' Axanar. Then began fallout on the unlicensed love of Trek community began and I have most recently been trying to make sense of it.

And I 'have' forgotten how long I've been planning to celebrate this whole year - been looking forward to it for two years. Saving for two years to get to the Convention with my friends. And there's the new movie coming out (yayyy) and a brand new series. (yayyy). And the anniversary party we're having September 8th itself. And The Ultimate Voyage concert if it gets to my neck of the woods.

January 1, 2016, was to be 'my' opening day of this 50th Anniversary Year of this wonderful thing called Star Trek that has so impacted and influenced my way of looking at my community and the world since that night of September 8, 1966, when while flipping TV channels I stumbled onto a show I'd never seen or heard of. It was morally, ethically, and philosophically Life changing for me.

The news I learned on December 31st derailed me for that opening day I see.

Now I 'did' need to learn about this. I did need to understand the wtf's; who are these primary players, what happened and why, who are these entrenched pro&against peripheral actors swirling around this, what do 'I' think about this whole thing. Now I'm settled on my own perspective of it; what I think and why. I have truly enjoyed all the researching I've done for these four months. LOLOL I've settled on how and why I want this to turn out, what and why I feel about alllll the players - bit, peripheral, & primary - even how I speculate it will turn out. And it will be of some entertainment to me to see how close (or not) my speculations came. LOLOL

I've now had two big cries about it, the first when the unofficial calls began going out and I felt so angry. The second while watching Trekzone Pt2, then posting about it, when I felt so discouraged & unhappy. However, I also felt a unexpected release of pent up frustration at that time which I didn't even know was there. LOLOL

Finally, I've greatly enjoyed coming to my Big Picture hypothesis on the investor/backer thing, where its going. That will also be of some entertainment to me to see how close (or not) my hypothesis is in the end.

But your post reminded me what this year is about to 'me', and how I've been planning to celebrate it, and sort of woke me up. So I'm going back home to Star Trek Actual I guess - to get back on the track I love and the celebrating I've been planning to do.

Yeah. Thanks for that!

 

[Harvey]

More significantly, I would argue with the "newsworthy" nature of the case.
To me, the case appears to be a standard copyright infringement matter. These is really very little to question legally in this space because copyright matters are debated all the time in the United States.

Tell that to Newsweek, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wrap, Deadline, CNN, and all the other major news outlets that have reported on the lawsuit.

 

[Noname Given]

Pedraza, Hinman, and other's comments is that other fan based efforts are "in trouble" or "have received calls" or "will stop producing" or "will be made to halt". These comments are not informed. They are speculative and are not informed by direct information from Viacom or CBS itself.

Except they're not the only one's claiming or talking about this aspect. In fact the following was posted by Mr. Alec Peters himself (from his April 20th 'Captain's Log):
http://www.axanarproductions.com/captains-log-april-20th-2016/

I got a call today from Tommy Kraft or Star Trek: Horizon. Tommy was called by CBS who suggested he cancel the Kickstarter he was planning and drop plans to make the sequel to Horizon. According to Tommy, this news came from Bill Burke, CBS Consumer Products chief, who also said other productions would be getting calls.

So, I find it interesting that you're calling out Carlos Pedraza's and Mike Hinman's reporting of the situation; and claiming such comments are 'not informed' - when at best they're just repeating what Mr. Peters himself has stated is the situation via a call from another Fan Film producer (Tommy Kraft) who received a call from CBS stating they would advise he NOT do crowdfunding or start production - and Mr. Kraft wisely complied.

There's also corroborating evidence from another thread on TrekBBS: Tommy Kraft announces Horizon sequel!!
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tommy-kraft-announces-horizon-sequel.280228/

So, yeah, but it seems such statements are anything but speculative. If you want to blame any group or person for the current climate Star Trek fan films find themselves in - That would be Axanar Productions and Mr. Alec Peters.

 

[Sgt_G]

Sir, you are asking innocent parties to demonstrate that they are innocent.

No, I'm not. I'm asking for an independent confirmation of Alec Peter's violent denial of being notified in any way shape or form to stop production before CBS hit him with the law suit. So many here have found it very odd that CBS would skip the C&D letter step. People have tried to ask AP about it (and much more), only to have their postings removed from his Facebook page.

You're right: there should be no reason to continue fund raising after receiving a C&D letter. But if you willingly choose to ignore it, you'd go on doing whatever you were doing, no? I'm not saying that's what Alec Peters did, but I'd believe that sooner than I would believe CBS gave him no warnings whatsoever.

A friend of mine had to issue a C&D letter to an ex-staff member who was making/selling rip-off copies of my friend's products. It had to go to court, and the guy claimed, "He never told me to stop." My friend showed the judge the certified registered letter receipt and an avadavat from the person who hand-delivered the second copy of said C&D letter. The judge ruled in my friend's favor after about ten more minutes of testimony ......

P.S> I'm a Sergeant ... I work for a living .... don't call me "sir"!!!

 

[bonesmccoy2014]

But your post reminded me what this year is about to 'me', and how I've been planning to celebrate it, and sort of woke me up. So I'm going back home to Star Trek I think. Get back on the track I love and the celebrating I've been planning to do.
Yeah. Thanks for that!

You are most welcome.

I am terribly sad to see people getting wrapped up in the drama and antics of the Axanar matter. However, in the bigger scope, this is a drama that will take time to play out. We should not allow the legalities detract from the other fun experiences around the newest film and the brand new TV series. Plus, there's huge con's and great stuff rolling out from the video games.

 

[bonesmccoy2014]

So, yeah, but it seems such statements are anything but speculative. If you want to blame any group or person for the current climate Star Trek fan films find themselves in - That would be Axanar Productions and Mr. Alec Peters.

The reason my words were primarily targeted at Hinman and Pedraza was that Hinman, Pedraza, and a few others clearly have public relations experience.

I don't go looking at Alex Peters blog and before this coverage by Pedraza, I had never heard of the issues with Axanar. Peters is also clearly not a public relations guy. However, Hinman, Pedraza, et al are experienced in public relations.

Therefore, I can not excuse the timing and coordination of the behavior. The number of Trek related sites and the number of Trek related blogs that have been repeating these speculations is not coincidental.

When there are so many positive things going on, I just want to encourage people to get focused on the real fun stuff. Arguing over the legalities is idiotic. It's the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek! Can you name any other TV show that is going to have literally thousands of people celebrating the Golden Anniversary of the show?

The timing of the hand-wringing is not "coincidence". In Public Relations, timing is literally everything.

 

[bonesmccoy2014]

No, I'm not. I'm asking for an independent confirmation of Alec Peter's violent denial of being notified in any way shape or form to stop production before CBS hit him with the law suit. So many here have found it very odd that CBS would skip the C&D letter step. People have tried to ask AP about it (and much more), only to have their postings removed from his Facebook page

My comments were really not focused on AP. I understand the logic in your discussion regarding AP and have no reason to disagree with that.

My comments are primarily focused on the "reporters" and why the timing of the release was selected to be this particular week and that particular time.

In the CBS v Axanar matter, there will be no new developments in the case until after news comes out regarding the next scheduled conference. If a reporter is in the room at that time, we may hear on the same day. Otherwise, there was no sudden breaking news story. Tommy Kraft's news was moving over the net prior to last weekend due to the CBS phone call. But, there was no change in the case management of the CBS v. Axanar case.

Therefore some other driver exists for why Hinman, Pedraza, and others are speculating. I am writing these comments in order to understand this.

Other blogs have published more speculation and some of those blogs have, in my opinion, crossed the line with these other fan projects by impugning the character of the main contributors, openly stating that those productions are going to shut down soon or have already received calls, and then doubting the legitimacy of people involved.

There's no evidence to support those concerns at this time. The fears being expressed are ridiculous. If CBS really had that beef, they would have already called those projects.

 

[Sgt_G]

My comments were really not focused on AP.

But my comments clearly were focused on AP and his claims ......

Other blogs have published more speculation and some of those blogs have, in my opinion, crossed the line with these other fan projects by impugning the character of the main contributors, openly stating that those productions are going to shut down soon or have already received calls, and then doubting the legitimacy of people involved.

Those reporters / bloggers repeated AP's statements about that. Most later posted retractions after TK corrected them. Some blogs posed the question "will CBS tell others to shut down" but they didn't say it would happen (save for quoting AP, whose statements we now know were wrong). And regardless, I have yet to see any blog "impugn the character" of other fan-project contributors or otherwise "doubt the legitimacy" of those people.

 

[Michael Hinman]

Therefore, I raised the question (so far left totally unanswered) of whether or not the PR guy had been informed that he was being recorded.

Here's an idea. Peters is an "attorney by training," and he likes to threaten to sue. If he feels he was so wronged, why doesn't he sue? I haven't even heard him bitch about any of this. So I guess it's just you ... and who are you again? Oh, that's right, someone who came into this thread 15,000 posts in with guns blazing.
.

In this respect, the rights and interests of CBS or Viacom shareholders are not served well by either Mr. Hinman's behavior or Mr. Pedraza's behavior.

Well, that's no concern of mine. I am not here to serve the rights or interests of CBS or Viacom. I am not responsible to their shareholders in any way. It's called "independence." I choose news that I feel my readers will be interested in, and have been doing it for many, many, many years.

I urge Mr. Hinman and Mr. Pedraza to please stop interfering and stop reporting on this matter. You are doing a disservice to yourself and all parties involved.

Yeah, I'll jump right on that. lol

Thorough?

After reading their blogs and comments, they're irresponsible. It isn't that I want to totally muzzle them. They just need to think through their words and their behavior a bit better.

I think through everything. And you can keep calling us a "blog" all you want, but we aren't, and I know what the fuck I'm doing. The question is, do you?

Regarding the timing of their "news report" on the 1701 blog, the timing of the Trek Zone interview, and the timing of the multiple postings I see on multiple Star Trek related blogs and social media platforms, the timing looks awfully coincidental in that it appears contemporaneous to and possibly competing with the messages from Star Trek Continues supporters who are actively attempting to raise funds through IndieGoGo.

Yes, please don't tell Vic, but all the news outlets in America (and Australia) got together, and said, "Hey, let's make sure STC can't raise any money. First, we need CBS and Paramount to file a lawsuit just after Christmas, and then we'll make sure that Peters doesn't agree to do an interview with TrekZone until April."

Yeah, you caught us. We should feel ashamed, lol.

The mixed messages take time to resolve and most people are too lazy to pick apart the differences in the cases.

Yes, it's absolutely my fault that STC is not raising funds. In fact, Vic emailed me this weekend, yelling at me for causing all this. In fact, he did a video where he said that people should stop reading 1701News and AxaMonitor, because we're causing people to not want to donate to STC.

FYI -- that's not what happened at all.

Hinman and Pedraza's comments on the CBS v. Axanar case also creates issues for CBS itself.

I'd love to know how that is possible. CBS and Paramount were so upset with our coverage, it CITED AN INTERVIEW WE DID WITH PETERS in its amended complaint. You know, the part where Peters admits to infringing. Yes, that must've been devastating to CBS and Paramount, to be forced to cite 1701News in an amended complaint.

Account created today. Hmm, definitely not a troll account, not at all.

That Paul guy is one of those very nasty, and very vocal Axanar supporters. And yes, he's right. Don't listen to me, because I have a potty mouth, and I was responding to Terry McIntosh's potty mouth.

 

[dmac]

Peters is also clearly not a public relations guy.

Pre 2000's If you ever engaged in gorilla investing, digging for the next future Lionsgate in the OTC markets AP would not only hold his own but appear down right honest compared to the best of the PR project pushers.

 

[Michael Hinman]

The timing of the hand-wringing is not "coincidence". In Public Relations, timing is literally everything.

Except, I am not in public relations. And neither is Carlos. We are reporting and commenting on an ongoing news story. And if people didn't give two shits about it, they wouldn't be reading it. But they are, so guess what? We're still going to report on it.

For the second part of the interview on TrekZone, I had implored Matthew to release it far earlier, not so that I could coordinate bringing down Vic, but because I didn't want the news value to wane. Matthew has made his own decisions, but has sought advice from various people, including me, who has 18 years experience in entertainment reporting, and 23 years overall in reporting period (primarily for print publications).

 

[mirrormatt86]

I'm not going to sift through your quotes @bonesmccoy2014 and answer questions that are clearly not aimed at me. For almost five pages now you have been addressing me while discussing @Michael Hinman and @carlosp and they're adult-enough to answer your questions.

We seem to be going around in circles on the Penal Code, I'll compose a formal response for you later in the week just so you can sleep soundly at night because you (and not Alec, Mike, Erin or any other Axafaithful) seem to be hung up on this so called issue.

@Michael Hinman, it wasn't so much disagreeing with you as a physical impossibility of being 1200km's from my edit suite.

 

[DizLiz Jane Way]

For the ignorant random - heads up mate! The world doesn't revolve around California, nor any other part of the "God Almighty US of A". I understand that this may come as a huge shock to you but the majority of the world aren't 'God damnits'. Your laws mean diddly-squat everywhere else. What people are annoyed about is the likes of some in question who are stuffing it up for the rest of fan-based film makers. Another case in point where the Yanks have boldly gone where no one else dares to and stuffs it up up for everyone else, all in the name of Justice and the American way! Yeehaa!

 

[HIjol]

"Blessed are the Peacemakers..."

...but they also need to know when to get the hell out of the way!
(lessee...toothbrush, Personal TAS Bodyshield, coffee...)

Let the Feeding Begin!

bonesmccoy, you are passionate and tenacious...but surely you can "sense" and read the overwhelming sentiment here. I am not telling you that you are 'wrong" and I am certainly not a fan of trying in the "Court of Public Opinion", but you must realize that this situation has long past a case of if there is a legal case for infringement. Way past any defense of using Fan Funds in a way contrary to what they were solicited for. "Interviews" conducted for Agenda, and not Transparency and Information. Frankly puzzling behavior by both sides, with no explanation, yet.

I am an expert in seeing and feeling what I want to see and feel, from time to time, and also an expert in the lessons learned from those "incomplete" perceptions. I have read every one of your words. May I tell you that, while I am sure you are looking at this situation from a standpoint of devotion and "fairness", I would also suggest that you also consider some of the solid, substantial, corroborated, confirmed information available, and incorporate that into your schema. No need to lash back or ask what I mean about "...the...information available,...". My words to you are sincere, but I wanted to Post them for the Forum, because I wanted others, on both sides of the Axanissue, to read and consider.

If you read this, I thank you.

 

[Trekkin]

The reason my words were primarily targeted at Hinman and Pedraza was that Hinman, Pedraza, and a few others clearly have public relations experience.

I don't go looking at Alex Peters blog and before this coverage by Pedraza, I had never heard of the issues with Axanar. Peters is also clearly not a public relations guy. However, Hinman, Pedraza, et al are experienced in public relations.

Therefore, I can not excuse the timing and coordination of the behavior. The number of Trek related sites and the number of Trek related blogs that have been repeating these speculations is not coincidental.

When there are so many positive things going on, I just want to encourage people to get focused on the real fun stuff. Arguing over the legalities is idiotic. It's the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek! Can you name any other TV show that is going to have literally thousands of people celebrating the Golden Anniversary of the show?

The timing of the hand-wringing is not "coincidence". In Public Relations, timing is literally everything.

Out of the 1300 threads in the fan production forum, one is discussing Axanar. In the boards for the Anniversary and official Trek, we have:

• Future of Trek (1000 threads)
• General Trek Discussion (8200 threads)
• Star Trek Movies XI+ (7000 threads)

Yeah...I don't think we need any encouragement to discuss the 'fun stuff.'

Oh, and as somone who has trained and worked in both careers, you're wrong about PR and law. And of course, you're theory has the typical tin-foil holes:

• Real, effective conspiracies don't needlessly involve this many people.
• Anyone with the clout or ability to manipulate multiple competing information outlets would not be working for CBS, and farting around with fanfilms.
• Expenditure vs benefit.

 

[Ryan F]

It's the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek! Can you name any other TV show that is going to have literally thousands of people celebrating the Golden Anniversary of the show?

Doctor Who.

If you watch the news, read the papers, you'll know that bad news sells. For whatever reason (I'm no psychologist), we as humans love reading about the bad stuff, the crime, the scandal. Everyone loves a heartwarming story every now and again, but you'll usually find it tucked away on page five.

The reason for the interest in this story is not due to some conspiracy, it's not a witch-hunt, it's not some shady nefarious scheme. This is a big story because it's salacious. It's juicy and it's dirty and that's precisely what makes it so compelling.

The thing is, the story wouldn't be half as interesting if it weren't for team Axanar themselves. If they were all straight-shooters like Mike Bawden you wouldn't get all this hullabaloo. But when you look at the Facebook bannings, the IT guy using the word 'spastic', Peters' Trekzone meltdown, the Tony Todd fallout, Peters publically climbing down after claiming that David Gerrold was bad-mouthing Pedraza etc. etc... Camp Axanar are throwing fuel on the fire themselves, and it's only natural that rubberneckers like myself have stopped to take a look.

It's soap opera, and that's the reason for the interest, pure and simple.