Casting a Gender-Switched Enterprise

[borgboy]

My idea of Jamie Kirk would have a sense of humor, but she'd be the most butch of the girls. I'd see her being angsty and driven, married to her career with men only good for a brief fling. There would of course be friendship bonding, as there should be.
T'Spock would be an ice princess, of course, but McCoy would be more girly, but also a world weary divorcee, who compensates for missing her son by mothering the younger crew. I could see Sulu and Chekov being very girly. Scotty would be a bit of been around the block a couple times gal.
Oh, I did think of a new name for McCoy. Lenora makes sense, but I like Leah.

 

[BigJake]

I don't understand why most - all (?) - of those who seem for this idea of switching genders, should be so against having any fun with the feminine energy these women would undoubtedly bring to the new series.

Oh hey, love me some feminine energy. It's just that feminine energy doesn't always need to be cutesy. If I want to gender-switch Captain Kirk I want his female version to kick at least as much ass as Ellen Ripley -- who was still plenty feminine but never cutesy about it.

 

[2takesfrakes]

... Understood and Confirmed!

I guess I've always felt that VOYAGER was very adverse to showing women be "cutesy" at all. I don't even think I really noticed it that much, because of Kes. She was so sweet and pixie-like, and so cute in her short hair, for the most part. I know that many fans don't care for her wholesomeness, or whatever. Chicks have to have a certain bitchiness, for them to be taken seriously in anything. Hats off to them, but I only hated that Kes had such a short shelf-life and her boyfriend.

THEN Rain Robinson comes along in FUTURE'S END, with her sort of loopy personality and now I'm noticing how bereft VOYAGER was of that, otherwise - and didn't need to be. I didn't think Rain was an idiot, or a fool. She was naive, to a certain degree, but she wasn't a joke. She was just "light," and I failed to find that lightness again, after Tom kissed her good-bye. I found that I missed it. When envisioning this Gender-Switch concept, most of us seem to not even have that on their radar. Chicks with attitude are the order of the day and I am in the minority, here ...

 

[borgboy]

Kes is my favorite Voyager character. She was sweet and cute, but that didn't mean she wasn't strong when she needed to be. It many ways it takes more strength to be gentle and kind, and affectionate the way that she was. She was the first person to accept the Doctor as a sentient being when everyone else just saw him as a tool.

 

[BigJake]

I guess I've always felt that VOYAGER was very adverse to showing women be "cutesy" at all. I don't even think I really noticed it that much, because of Kes. She was so sweet and pixie-like, and so cute in her short hair, for the most part. I know that many fans don't care for her wholesomeness, or whatever.

I liked Kes. In fact Kes was the only female regular on Voyager I much liked, but the problem with the others wasn't so much a lack of cuteness or the lighter qualities of womanhood.

Janeway would have been an impressive leader with a nice mixture of drive and femininity if the stories selling her leadership had been written more consistently, for instance.

Seven, aside from her magnificent... tracts of land... was stunted by an apparent need to have someone on the crew be "the logical one" who has to come to term with emotions, a redundancy as Tuvok was already filling that niche.

And as for B'Elanna:

Chicks have to have a certain bitchiness, for them to be taken seriously in anything.

I think this is a misconception and that she's a perfect example of it, a grating character whose feminine "strength" seems to consist of being permanently shrill, irrational and disagreeable, as if the writers had conceived her as permanently in "that time of the month." Terrible stuff.

 

[Commishsleer]

I'm really trying to sex up the name Jane.

I got nothing.

How about Janeway Kirk. Sort of has a ring to it.

I like Jocasta Kirk also. Jo for short.

Not every STAR TREK character MUST be reverse-sexed. I feel that Sarek & Amanda should remain as they are, for example - with one exception: Amanda is the parent T'Spock has issues with. Amanda has unrealistic expectations of her daughter, that cause problems ... pushing T'Spock towards the relatively placid Sarek and the serenity of The Vulcan Way. There are other ways to switch genders in STAR TREK without ... switching genders.

I agree.
I can see T'Spock being Daddy's girl.
Sarek will be disappointed that Spock didn't want to settle down and marry a nice boy like Stonn instead of running off into space.

And if Spock's being played by a hot babe I think she will have different issues than male Spock. I mean Vulcan boys will still 'like' Spock while the girls will be jealous.
Thats why perhaps Spock shouldn't be played by a babe but a cool beauty.

Here's some gender-switched drawings I have in my collection:

 

[borgboy]

Oh I definitely think T'Spock should be an ice princess. Of course, now and then we'd see her emotional side when she's in pon farr, or under some kind of influence. I'd have McCoy talk about how unhealthy it is that T'Spock represses her human side, so that when McCoy gives her grief, we understand it comes from a place of caring.
And then T'Spock's rejection of Stonn, or Pring, whatever, would be a feminist statement on independence and a rejection of the dark side of traditional marriage (female subjugation, submission, etc).

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't understand why most - all (?) - of those who seem for this idea of switching genders, should be so against having any fun with the feminine energy these women would undoubtedly bring to the new series. I think having Kirk seeing Spock in the hallway, first thing in the morning, and saying something like, "Oh, I love your hair! That looks cute on you ..." kind of thing would be great. But there seems to be a lot of resistance to anything like that. .

Because Janeway and B'Elanna were always talking like that.. NOT.

That's not feminine energy, that's high school.

We had a bit of that with Bev and Troi, and I can certainly see a female heart to heart happening (yes please) between Jaime Kirk and T'Spock at some point but what you are describing is a step down for our woman, the Captain.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Oh I definitely think T'Spock should be an ice princess. Of course, now and then we'd see her emotional side when she's in pon farr, or under some kind of influence. I'd have McCoy talk about how unhealthy it is that T'Spock represses her human side, so that when McCoy gives her grief, we understand it comes from a place of caring.
And then T'Spock's rejection of Stonn, or Pring, whatever, would be a feminist statement on independence and a rejection of the dark side of traditional marriage (female subjugation, submission, etc).

I am in love with this idea.

 

[borgboy]

I was kind of braced to get criticized for that, as gender issues offend some people, so I'm glad that idea gets some support.
A variation of that idea, of a female Vulcan is a major plot point in the Vanguard novel series, which is excellent. My favorite character there is T'Prynne, a really interesting female Vulcan. There are so many cool things that happen with that character, but I don't want to spoil anything.
I love the drawing above.
Not to get off topic, but Kirk in the green toga makes me wonder, is there any reason why Kirk sometimes wears that green toga shirt instead of the standard yellow shirt? Does it serve some purpose, is it supposed to be a dress shirt vs everyday shirt or something?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I haven't read Vanguard.

Thing is though arranged marriages may work well for their society their method for getting out of arranged marriages is illogical and barbaric and probably would cause a lot of pain. Imagine what it is like for the family of one who loses the kal-if-fee and dies. Spock is just a cog in the whole system in Amok Time, it would be great to see T'Spock taking a different tack and not silencing real issues with the word tradition.

 

[Commishsleer]

I don't understand why most - all (?) - of those who seem for this idea of switching genders, should be so against having any fun with the feminine energy these women would undoubtedly bring to the new series. I think having Kirk seeing Spock in the hallway, first thing in the morning, and saying something like, "Oh, I love your hair! That looks cute on you ..." kind of thing would be great. But there seems to be a lot of resistance to anything like that. .

Because Janeway and B'Elanna were always talking like that.. NOT.

That's not feminine energy, that's high school.

We had a bit of that with Bev and Troi, and I can certainly see a female heart to heart happening (yes please) between Jaime Kirk and T'Spock at some point but what you are describing is a step down for our woman, the Captain.

When Beverley and Troi did that I thought of them as lightweights.
I worked in professional offices for many years and no-one commented on hair or makeup unless someone was obviously dressed to the nines (going on a job interview).

I can't imagine girl Kirk even saying 'cute'

 

[Skywalker]

Not to get off topic, but Kirk in the green toga makes me wonder, is there any reason why Kirk sometimes wears that green toga shirt instead of the standard yellow shirt? Does it serve some purpose, is it supposed to be a dress shirt vs everyday shirt or something?

The green wraparound was looser than the gold/avocado pullover and didn't hug Shatner's gut as much.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I love the green wrap around.

 

[2takesfrakes]

That's not feminine energy, that's high school.
(SNIP!)
... what you are describing is a step down for our woman, the Captain.

... What?!
How dare you shoot me down?
... How dare you?!?!?!

 

[2takesfrakes]

I can't imagine girl Kirk even saying 'cute'

Now, listen here ...

 

[2takesfrakes]

Oh hey, love me some feminine energy. It's just that feminine energy doesn't always need to be cutesy. If I want to gender-switch Captain Kirk I want his female version to kick at least as much ass as Ellen Ripley -- who was still plenty feminine but never cutesy about it.

The Voice of Reason, at last - someone who actually agrees with me! Now this is what I call "good reading" ...

By the way, I thought your outline of those female VOYAGER characters summed them up, quite nicely.

 

[borgboy]

Not to get off topic, but Kirk in the green toga makes me wonder, is there any reason why Kirk sometimes wears that green toga shirt instead of the standard yellow shirt? Does it serve some purpose, is it supposed to be a dress shirt vs everyday shirt or something?

The green wraparound was looser than the gold/avocado pullover and didn't hug Shatner's gut as much.

I'm rewatching season one, and Kirk gets shirtless fairly often, and at this point's he's fit and in his prime,and looks good shirtless. He didn't have a gut then. I also wonder if there's any explanation why in one episode Sulu is wearing the science blue shirt, and in another episode, Uhura is wearing a gold mini dress.

 

[Commishsleer]

Not to get off topic, but Kirk in the green toga makes me wonder, is there any reason why Kirk sometimes wears that green toga shirt instead of the standard yellow shirt? Does it serve some purpose, is it supposed to be a dress shirt vs everyday shirt or something?

The green wraparound was looser than the gold/avocado pullover and didn't hug Shatner's gut as much.

I'm rewatching season one, and Kirk gets shirtless fairly often, and at this point's he's fit and in his prime,and looks good shirtless. He didn't have a gut then. I also wonder if there's any explanation why in one episode Sulu is wearing the science blue shirt, and in another episode, Uhura is wearing a gold mini dress.

I'm not the expert here but I heard that they changed Communications to be a part of Operations because Nichols looked better in red than in gold.
Sulu was a physicist in 'Where no Man Has Gone Before'. He changed to helm by the next episode.

 

[Shat Happens]

I think having Kirk seeing Spock in the hallway, first thing in the morning, and saying something like, "Oh, I love your hair! That looks cute on you ..." kind of thing would be great. But there seems to be a lot of resistance to anything like that. .

Kirk and Spock are still supposed to be friends, right? I thought those compliments on hair/clothes/shoes/etc meant the girls HATE each other's guts