Canon Question

[T'Girl]

Sometimes the canon events in a episode or a movie don't all line up. For example, Data states that another starship is "20,000 kilometers away," and then a second later the VFX depict that same ship at most a few kilometers away. So in terms of canon which over rides the other? Does the dialog take precedent over the VFX, and is what we see in the actors live action on screen more canon that the words that come out of the actors mouths?

Personal I put the dialog first, for one thing it's the easiest to check on, and there is less ambiguity, next there would be the actors actual physical actions on film or on video.

One example of this would be Kirk and Kang at the end of the episode Day of the Dove, when the two of them are laughing at the energy creature, they're facing it, then the next shot shows the VFX creature hovering above a balcony that would be over both of theirs right shoulders. I think the creature was actually in front of them and the VFX shot was "wrong."

Lastly would come the VFX in terms of "what is canon," if Worf states that a Romulan has cloaked and then several seconds later we see a VFX of the ship beginning to cloak, it actual happen when Worf spoke the words.

What do you think?

 

[DrTaylor]

That's nothing! Who knows what kind of scale those space cameras have? Besides, maybe they redid the metric system.

 

[Avon]

no its all canon. even when it makes no sense. and canon is all important. it cannot be changed, except when it does.

 

[zar]

That's not a space shot, it's a closeup of Data's computer which is displaying a 3D map with the images of the ships blown up so they are visible.

Kirk and Kang were actually laughing at the toilet paper stuck to Ensign Stevenson's uniform.

Worf was playing back a recording of the cloaking.

It's all canon.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think we're reaching that point where "it's just a TV show" is beginning to apply...

 

[milo bloom]

Lastly would come the VFX in terms of "what is canon," if Worf states that a Romulan has cloaked and then several seconds later we see a VFX of the ship beginning to cloak, it actual happen when Worf spoke the words.

It's really easy to get into nitpicky territory with these kinds of things, so a bit of dramatic license is always called for. Say we're on the bridge and Worf calls out "the Romulan ship is cloaking" then we cut to the visual and we see the shimmer effect start that signifies cloaking. In a case like that, what Worf very likely saw was the energy buildup in the Romulan ship's systems that indicate it's about to cloak, so that's what he calls out.

This type of thing I've learned to take with a grain of salt. Only obvious errors really annoy me (if a character were to say "the Romulans are offering us cake", but the visual shows a Ferengi flipping us the bird, that sort of thing).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wouldn't that be continuity and not canon?

 

[RyuRoots]

I think we're reaching that point where "it's just a TV show" is beginning to apply...

Seriously. They're TV shows. Timing isn't going to be perfect all the time, visual shots are going to side with "what looks cool" over accuracy of distance, and gaffs are going to happen.

Most people here should be reasonably intelligent enough to figure what the intent of a given scene is supposed to be.

 

[RandyS]

I think we're reaching that point where "it's just a TV show" is beginning to apply...

BLASPHEMY!!!!

BURN THE HERETIC!!!!!!

 

[BillJ]

Go with whatever makes the most sense in your head. That's what I do.

 

[Nerd unRage]

^ Yup. It's called suspension of disbelief. Writers, producers, directors, etc. can't possibly remember everything. At the end of the day, it's about telling a story as best you can that is entertaining and captivating.

 

[Finn]

^True, plus writers don't always keep track of what other writers wrote, not to mention there were different versions and editing for each episode so over the years....

We probably shouldn't criticize them if we wouldn't be able to do it better ourselves.

 

[Willieck]

If you try to make too much sense of it your brain will melt.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Sometimes the canon events in a episode or a movie don't all line up. For example, Data states that another starship is "20,000 kilometers away," and then a second later the VFX depict that same ship at most a few kilometers away. So in terms of canon which over rides the other?

When would it ever matter? The only groups beholden to ST canon are the writers and illustrators of ST licensed tie-ins, and they are highly unlikely to have to decide on whether Data's words or the onscreen FX are more correct. In any case, their editors always put each proposal (and completed manuscript) to CBS Consumer Products and someone there makes a ruling on whether it's permitted or not.

 

[Bill Morris]

I think we're reaching that point where "it's just a TV show" is beginning to apply...

It's an imperfect reenactment of actual future events not known in such detail. Real canon is only what's displayed by the Guardian of Forever.

 

[Sam_I_Am]

For what it's worth, Memory Alpha ranks sources of on-screen evidence like this:

1. Spoken dialogue (what is said)
2. Visual material (what is seen)
3. Aural material (what is heard that is not dialogue

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think we're reaching that point where "it's just a TV show" is beginning to apply...

It's an imperfect reenactment of actual future events not known in such detail. Real canon is only what's displayed by the Guardian of Forever.

Okay, so I now for certain "it's just a TV show" applies here...