Calling All Shippers! Mediation Thread

[Jenna]

Posted by angie:
Had she said that T'Pol wanted to play tonsil hockey naked with Trip she would be a smart woman the writers and producers should listen to

angie

Once AGAIN. That is an assumption based on nothing. The fact is that she didn't give an interview saying that, so we don't know how people would have reacted if she had.

After all the effort that has gone into emphasizing that people don't like to be lumped together, it's sad that people are still posting stuff like this. Vast generalizations and cheap-shot assumptions do nothing but make the poster look stupid and anger everyone else.

Why continue with it? What is it going to take to stop?

Seriously. I'm completely sick of it.

 

[Zane Gray]

Posted by angie:
I think pookha that in the case of the Stuff interview the fact that Ms. Blalock did not gush over the opportunity for T'Pol to get close with Trip was seen as just more of the TCA interview.Therefore set her up for name calling. Had she said that T'Pol wanted to play tonsil hockey naked with Trip she would be a smart woman the writers and producers should listen to

angie

This is exactly the kind of comment that ends up stirring people up, is it not?

 

[stubadingdong]

I hate to take sides here, but I do agree with Jenna on this one. Jolene made no mention of getting nekkid with anyone and therefore what everyone would think is irrelevant.

It wasn't my impression that anyone hates JB because she's not fond of the idea of her character having a relationship with anyone but rather she was disappointed in the way her character behaved in Season 3 and didn't express it well. Was she joking or serious? I don't think anyone can say because so much can get lost in print...even with smilies and winkies.

As for what people can do in these bloody shipper wars...don't take things so damn seriously. It's a television show, bottom line. If you choose to take offense at anyone's comments then so be it. But it's so much less stressful if you take responsibility for your own words and take everyone else's with a proverbial grain of salt. It's usually easier for me to just dodge the attacks and move on. If you feel like you're being baited, don't take it.

 

[Darlah Nahan Halrad]

I'd like to get off of the Stuff/Sci Fi whatchamacallit Mag interviews for a moment because quite frankly I believe both sides are making way too much of them. Even as a (sometimes too stubborn) T/T shipper I actually found myself agreeing with a lot of what Jolene said. And I for one never called her names, and made no assumptions about her intelligence.

Anyway, I think it's all well and good to scold everyone who gets unnecessarily mean and nasty around here, but I really don't think it's fair to split blame right down the middle as the mods and some of the mediators are trying to do. Both sides are not equally to blame. I mean is it any coincidence that things started getting really ugly around here AFTER Dawn Ostroff's(sp?) comment at the UPN upfronts a few weeks ago? You know, the one about "Trip and T'Pol's blossoming relationship"? Is it any coincidence that things kept getting uglier as more and more spoilers made their way to the BBS? Spoilers that confirmed, or at least lent more credence to Ostroff’s words?

Everyone's hands are dirty to some extent (I know mine are), but this shit does start somewhere.

 

[commodore64]

Hmmm -- maybe there's a way to start over.

Hi! My name is Commodore64. I live in Portland, Oregon. I work in a communications role [writing Web copy, creating Web sites, technical instructions and employee communications (like in our online newsletter)]. I love to sea kayak (don't do it enough), write, watch Star Trek (pretty much all version, except Voyager), like to read and like science fiction. I watch very little television. My favorite color is green. My favorite food is either lobster or steak. I can play the drums and love to sing. I like most music -- my favorite bands being Beatles, U2, Beck (not really a band) and Morphine of late. And my favorite kind of ice cream is any that has chocolate in it.

I like Archer because I like drama. I like A/T'P because I think they have a lot of chemistry and the potential for epic-drama is very great.

I started watching Star Trek reruns when I was 6 or 7 and was completely hooked. My favorite characters of all time include: Spock, Data, Picard, Archer and probably T'Pol.

 

[angie]

Ok I edited my comments. Obviously though they weren't based on nothing.

angie

 

[Jenna]

Posted by angie:
Ok I edited my comments. Obviously though they weren't based on nothing.

angie

No, not obviously. I'm tired of people assuming that just because I like Trip and T'Pol, that I liked EVERYTHING about the relationship. Not everyone wants to see them play "tonsil hockey" as you so eloquently put it. I know that quite a few T/Ters have expressed frustration with Harbinger. It's not necessarily the way we would have liked the relationship to go. Some like it, some don't. There's a wide range of opinion, and I feel sorry for those who can't acknowledge that.

 

[angie]

There's a wide range of opinion, and I feel sorry for those who can't acknowledge that.

I acknowledge that there is or the T/T peeps I count as people I love to talk to in person and via email and I would have not alot to say about Ent! However none of those people are attacking Ms. Blalock and none of those people went on about certain scenes as though they were the greatest thing to grace the small screen.

angie

 

[stubadingdong]

Posted by angie:
...none of those people are attacking Ms. Blalock and none of those people went on about certain scenes as though they were the greatest thing to grace the small screen.

angie

If that kind of talk bothers you so much, why do you read it? I think we all know which threads are going to discuss which ship. Why is it necessary to bait these people with differing opinions? Seriously. I'm not trying to be caustic or play dumb. I know I avoid the Archer threads with a passion. Why? Because I don't like the discussions. Simple enough, no? Why go into a discussion where I KNOW I'll get annoyed?

I feel like this place is a playground with the bullies lurking in the corners, waiting for someone to say just the wrong thing and then they pounce. It's not what is said but how it's said. There is a way to debate and discuss and there is a way to bully and poke. Some folks are smarter at it and disguise it better, but all in all, it's dirty play.

 

[Darlah Nahan Halrad]

Posted by stubadingdong:
I feel like this place is a playground with the bullies lurking in the corners, waiting for someone to say just the wrong thing and then they pounce. It's not what is said but how it's said. There is a way to debate and discuss and there is a way to bully and poke. Some folks are smarter at it and disguise it better, but all in all, it's dirty play.

Yes, and as long some people feel let down and disappointed by The Show hostilities will continue. It's not about shipper preferences, or opposing viewpoints. Plenty of healthy discussion and debate goes on around here because of it. Things only turn ugly when something definitive come down the pipe. Something that can't be spun in one direction or the other. Certain episodes, and some recent spoilers and comments from TPTB have been quite distressing for a few people around here, and now they're lashing out.

 

[angie]

I read some of it for perverse amusement and some because I even though I doubt Ms. Blalock is even aware of or cares about the crap being said about her choices I do. She and Scott Bakula and the others give me alot of hours of diversion each season.

angie

 

[stubadingdong]

And perverse amusement is exactly why this thread exists. There will never be an end to it in this forum or any other on the internet.

Taking offense to other peoples' comments is a personal choice.

 

[Blah]

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore with regards to Jolene's comments

People taking shots at her comments? Well her comments are fair game so that shouldn't be an issue.

People taking shots at JB? Mostly unfair but what can ya do..

Anything else?

 

['Shippy]

I thought of something I found on the Internet a long time ago, and thought it might help. Some of the rules don't really apply to 'ship disagreements.

It's called Netiquette. There are core rules and one short page covering each.

Here are a few of the ideas I really liked:

Remember the human, there are real people behind usernames. Stand up for yourself, but try not to hurt people's feelings. Would you say what you typed to the person's face?

Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life.

 

['Shippy]

I thought up a list of top ten things 'shippy disagreement things that annoy me. I'm using examples I made up.

1. Lumping people together into T/T or A/T groups. 'Shippers aren't clones they think differently. "All __ 'shippers like that." or "No ___ 'shippers like that."


2. Making assumptions or reading between the lines of someone's post. "You're just saying that because you think ___."

3. Bashing 'ship. "___ 'ship is so lame."

4. Telling 'shippers what to think, or to give up. "Your 'ship is hopeless."

5. Stating opinions as fact. "__ will never get together." instead of "I think __ will never get together."

6. Playing the chemistry card. (I think chemistry is up to what the person perceives between the characters.) "My 'ship has obvious chemistry. Your 'ship has no chemistry what so ever."

7. Not letting go of the past. The person in question may not still believe that. "I remember when you said (insert thing from past)."

8. Flaming people instead of debating their post. "(Insert name-calling, personal insults, or 'ship insults here.)"

9. Bashing in a rage thread. 'nuff said.

10. Assuming people have bad intentions. Sometimes people are just posting their opinion and don't know it will offend someone.

 

[pookha]

Posted by angie:
I think pookha that in the case of the Stuff interview the effects of the words spoken at the TCA press conference were still reverberating.

angie

well angie how does that explain some of the negative reaction from non t/t people including at least one archer fan who was bummed enough to start yet another thread.

once again really look at what at lot of people were unahappy about .. and a lot of it formed not only around the idea she thought threre might not be another year but that what the hell comment.

thanks to zane i saw your unedited comment,.
well this is an example at what was going on friday night..

most of your posts where great and were helping to calm things down,
i notice we agree that this was probably a spring intervew .

and that her attitidude for the coming year has changed.

but then slipping in like you couldnt help yourself out came these shipper digs..
and then you went back to being calm and reasonable.

i guess we all can't help the little

sometimes..

 

[Jenna]

pookha I'm stealing that smiley. Great. Don't worry, I'll put it on my own photobucket account, okay?

 

[Lady Conqueror]

Posted by 'Shippy:
I thought up a list of top ten things 'shippy disagreement things that annoy me. I'm using examples I made up.

1. Lumping people together into T/T or A/T groups. 'Shippers aren't clones they think differently. "All __ 'shippers like that." or "No ___ 'shippers like that."


2. Making assumptions or reading between the lines of someone's post. "You're just saying that because you think ___."

3. Bashing 'ship. "___ 'ship is so lame."

4. Telling 'shippers what to think, or to give up. "Your 'ship is hopeless."

5. Stating opinions as fact. "__ will never get together." instead of "I think __ will never get together."

6. Playing the chemistry card. (I think chemistry is up to what the person perceives between the characters.) "My 'ship has obvious chemistry. Your 'ship has no chemistry what so ever."

7. Not letting go of the past. The person in question may not still believe that. "I remember when you said (insert thing from past)."

8. Flaming people instead of debating their post. "(Insert name-calling, personal insults, or 'ship insults here.)"

9. Bashing in a rage thread. 'nuff said.

10. Assuming people have bad intentions. Sometimes people are just posting their opinion and don't know it will offend someone.

Good list 'Shippy. Let's hope we can stick to it.

It's funny but I really shouldn't even be participating in this thread in a sense. I'm not a real "big 'shipper" when it comes to Trip.

Now don't get me wrong, I like the T/T relationship a lot and have written 1 & 1/2 fics with them ( don't even start bugging me people, it's not getting finished anytime soon ) but in all honesty I think Trip has chemistry with all the characters and any 'ship pairing featuring him would work and work well for me - well except for Phlox, I accidently stumbled onto a Trip/Phlox fanfic once and let me tell you I don't want repeat that experience again

As for A/T'P, well I love their chemistry and dynamic and friendship but I don't want it to go romantic. A deep, platonic love in a male/female friendship is something we don't get to see too often with Trek without it going into actual love. Plus I like T'Pol & Archer as my metaphors for the greater Vulcan/Human relationship and romance sours that metaphor for me. But I do see why some folks would see the romance there. It's just not a personal preference for me.

Of course, if I had my way, T'Pol would dump both Trip & Archer and head Malcolm's way But the T'Pol/Reed 'ship is a much minority 'ship and not likely to ever happen on the show so I don't cop much flak for it. Which is nice but I also don't get the opportunity to talk about it much either 'cos there aren't many of us and certainly not around here anymore.

Don't know if that helped any but it lets folks know where I'm coming from I hope.

 

[angie]

Don't know if that helped any but it lets folks know where I'm coming from I hope.

It does Lady C! Except for those of us who like Trip like me but see him as a secondary character aren't allowed our point of view.

I find the deep friendship of Archer and T'Pol far more interesting of any of the relationships on Enterprise.I personally do see a sexual undercurrent and like it as an undercurrent.I wouldn't mind a hint of more eventually but prefer the way friendship is written generally on this show (and most genre shows for that matter)than romance if last season is any example. I am glad that the command dynamic between Archer and T'Pol is to return this season and be used alot according to rumors.

 

[plumtuckered]

Posted by angie:
It does Lady C! Except for those of us who like Trip like me but see him as a secondary character aren't allowed our point of view.

You're most certainly allowed your point of view. Trip is the third character in this show and I believe everyone agrees on this.

And I'm just curious....many Archer supporters feel they're attacked if they put down Trip, but if I were to share my true feelings about Archer, wouldn't I also be attacked? That's why I don't bring up my opinions on this BBS because I KNOW I'll be chewed up one side and down the other. Heck, I don't even share my opinion on Archer at the HoT. Anyway, neither side is innocent in this.

Just because we have a right to state our opinions, doesn't necessarily mean we have to share them. If we choose to share them, we have to be prepared to hear it from those who don't agree. Some are more tactful than others, but we're still putting ourselves out there. That is just a given around these parts.

I still think the only way around these 'shipper, character vs. character situations is the "ignore" function. After all the talk in this thread, no one has changed at all so I just don't see any other solution.