Calling All Shippers! Mediation Thread

[Garrett]

Just a reminder on getting personal in your comments. There's been a lot of good and productive comments in this thread, but let's keep from discussing specific posters here.
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Well, I was going to list some of my own thoughts on the matter, but 'Shippy has already posted along those lines and did a better than I probably would have.

A lot of the problems between ships would probably be solved by not reading too much into the comments made by those who are fans of a particular 'ship, and not assuming that a poster can be pigeon-holed into a certain set of beliefs, attitudes and opinions because they're interested in a different 'ship. We could also do with a good dose of not taking criticism of our respective favorite ships personally. That would go a long way to ending hostilities between the camps.

As for thread participation, I will have to think a bit more on that.

 

[Zane Gray]

Posted by Makurosu:
Just a reminder on getting personal in your comments. There's been a lot of good and productive comments in this thread, but let's keep from discussing specific posters here.
--------------------------------

Well, I was going to list some of my own thoughts on the matter, but 'Shippy has already posted along those lines and did a better than I probably would have.

A lot of the problems between ships would probably be solved by not reading too much into the comments made by those who are fans of a particular 'ship, and not assuming that a poster can be pigeon-holed into a certain set of beliefs, attitudes and opinions because they're interested in a different 'ship. We could also do with a good dose of not taking criticism of our respective favorite ships personally. That would go a long way to ending hostilities between the camps.

As for thread participation, I will have to think a bit more on that.

Well said. You know... the good thing is that both side are talking. Only good can come of that.

 

[commodore64]

Posted by plumtuckered:
To my knowledge, there are only two or three people on each side that seem to openly provoke the "other side" with comments, be it intended or not. Their comments almost always contain a certain level of sarcasm and insult. Most posts I read, though negative toward that "other side", have a lot of thought behind them, some actually are quite eloquent, and they don't anger me in the least even though I may not agree with them.

Unfortunately, I doubt the two or three I see on both sides will ever realize they're doing anything wrong because in their eyes, they're not. They will always point the finger elsewhere. Perhaps if their posts bother someone, that someone should just set the "ignore" function to ignore their posts. Or PM a buddy to vent and keep it off the boards.

I think this is where moderators really help. Sometimes, and I know this happens to others, I will honestly post something that I don't think is offensive and suddenly I'm the prime rib in the dog section of an animal shelter.

I think mostly it's nice to assume other people don't mean to do wrong. At least, I would love to make posts and others assume I'm not being "evil."

Back to the moderators or your own peeps, maybe instead of thinking others are out to commit mean-ness, a neutral party like a mod can help bring a little balance and point out some ways to dial it back. That's very helpful ....

Zane and I tried to have a little committee of shippers. Zane (and a few others) would work with their folks if they thought things were getting out of hand and I would work with my folks. Not very helpful as you can tell by our posts even now. For one, when I read things like I find are offensive from some trolling posters, I'm less likely to say, "Be nice" to my folks. In addition, I have strong opinions and a smart mouth -- makes me incredibly popular, let me tell you. And lastly, one Tuckerite was out to flame my bacon and I think it really got to me. Although I think Shippy or Kal might be able to hold their tongue better, Tuckerites may not see them as neutral. Just like, as much as I like Zane, Bucky, Quills, etc., I don't see them as neutral -- just smart and nice whom I respect... with some bad taste in shipping. [I really meant that icon. I like them.]

 

[Nephandus]

To me, I guess all 'shippy threds are a bit like picking your favorite member of N'Sync...

 

[jkladis]

N'-Who?

 

[pookha]

Posted by jkladis:
N'-Who?

i think they were some obscure alien race seen in the background of a tng episode

 

[Jen]

Posted by pookha:

Posted by jkladis:
N'-Who?

i think they were some obscure alien race seen in the background of a tng episode

Now you've just ruined TNG for me.

 

[witchie]

I guess that explains their success. They brainwashed everyone w/ their alien technology.

 

[commodore64]

I received a very thoughtful PM, which I wish I could respond to privately (but alas cannot), so let me do so here ....

My number one reason for liking Archer/T'Pol is -- I like drama. I like the drama of a triangle [Archer/T'Pol/Trip]. I like the drama of Archer going against his convictions. I like writers exploiting hot buttons to make shows interesting, even it means exploiting my favorite character. Again, I like drama.

I like the idea of Sim living instead of Trip because I see dramatic potential. A lot of it, in fact. I think the scenes with Sim/T'Pol would be interesting. I like the idea of Sim and Archer scenes [imagine the angst], etc. It's not because I hate Trip. On the contrary, I like Trip. I try, doesn't mean I succeed, to treat him well in fiction, and like the comedic roles he brings. I liked his parts in The Forgotten [although I may disgaree with the delayed grief syndrome].

I also like to comment on things I like/don't like about characters. North Star Archer was rather silly. Having his shoulder shot *through* by a shot gun and still able to beat up the bad guy is silly writing. But, I do recognize Archer will 9 times out of 10 be the hero. Why? That's kinda his role.

If I write a comment about Trip, imagine for a moment I'm not an A/T'P-er. I think maybe it'll give us something to talk about, especially since I love flawed characters. Cogenitor was my favorite Trip episode. He may have been wrong, but he learned bad habits from Archer, who suddenly seemed painfully aware of how he must be acting. *That* is great drama.

So, overall, I ...
* Like drama. Things that make good drama [including her character getting the crap beat out of him] is good.
* Like Trip. I don't need to prove it to you, but I do. Any comments about him are just hopefully points I'd like to bring up.
* Do not have a voice like Rosanne Barr. I'm quite friendly.
* Mean well. Occasionally, I'll be playful, but I do feel like it's obvious, especially after all this time. I'll try and do a better job of saying, "I'm being silly. Play with me."
* Love Star Trek, especially ENT, TOS and TNG.

 

[Ulva]

Posted by commodore64:
* Do not have a voice like Rosanne Barr. I'm quite friendly.

*shudder* Horrible thought!

* Love Star Trek, especially ENT, TOS and TNG.

You and me both commodore64...

Good post! Can we start to hope the tide is turning now? I sure hope so...

 

[kitkat]

Posted by Ulva:

Posted by commodore64:
* Do not have a voice like Rosanne Barr. I'm quite friendly.

*shudder* Horrible thought!

* Love Star Trek, especially ENT, TOS and TNG.

You and me both commodore64...

Good post! Can we start to hope the tide is turning now? I sure hope so...

Me too. I have so much fun in here and I want everybody to have fun!!

And, I agree.....good post commodore64 .

 

['Shippy]

Woohoo! I like the vibe in the post on this page!

I think a good point has made a good point. 'Shippers aren't just 'shippers.

 

[teya]

Posted by I Love Chakotay:
Over in the Voy forum now we 'shippers still stand by our obsessions I think, but there's a definite live n let live feeling there now, imho. A feeling that people are entitled to like what they like and it's nobodies job to try and persuade them to like something else, or rubbish their 'ship. So, all things pass, and when the dust settles things look different. Just something to keep in mind, maybe? Hope it helps

Nicely said, ILC.

Naraht suggested some of us vets of the Voyager shipper wars come over here to lend our perspective.

I'm a C/7er. And if you want to see a reviled 'ship, there ya go. I've been called a pedophile, a disgrace to my Indian heritage (by a white woman from the UK, no less), and a slut for liking my 'ship. At one point in time, someone signed me up for a bunch of J/C lists--I was getting 150 e-mails a day. People tried to get my avatar deleted as trolling.

I've known C/7ers whose fanfic sites were hacked.

It was *ugly*.

And what did it accomplish? Absolutely nothing except to make me really despise J/C. I won't even read J/C fic any more. I used to. Now I won't. They left such bile in my mouth that I can't stomach the pairing at all.

But, I'm still here and still writing C/7, and now that the dust has settled, it is generally pleasant to go into the Voyager forum. One of these days, we might even get a Seven-gush thread that doesn't include snide comments from the peanut gallery, but that day hasn't gotten here yet. I still have hope.

I do know how invested people get in their 'ships, and it does no good to tell someone to get over it or that it's just a TV show. People get invested in things for different reasons, and only that person knows how valid it is. C/7--a couple who had individually gone to hell and back--attracted me because at the time it was on, my late SO was dying. We *were* going to hell and back, and C/7 was a lovely fairy tale for me, something to look forward to after a day of work and a night in the CCU.

Coming to this board and being told to "get over it" and that I was somehow deviant for liking the pairing really didn't sit well. Yet, though all of that, my perspective hasn't changed:

According to TNG's "Parallels," any possible reality can and does exist in its own quantum reality.

Any possible shipper pairing can and does occur in its own timeline. Just let the T/Ters have theirs and the A/Ters have theirs and agree to disagree. It's really unnecessary to tear each other down in order to build yourselves up.

If a 'ship has to destroy the other 'ships to justify themselves, then how valid is that 'ship anyway?

 

['Shippy]

Posted by teya:

Posted by I Love Chakotay:
Over in the Voy forum now we 'shippers still stand by our obsessions I think, but there's a definite live n let live feeling there now, imho. A feeling that people are entitled to like what they like and it's nobodies job to try and persuade them to like something else, or rubbish their 'ship. So, all things pass, and when the dust settles things look different. Just something to keep in mind, maybe? Hope it helps

Nicely said, ILC.

Naraht suggested some of us vets of the Voyager shipper wars come over here to lend our perspective.

I'm a C/7er. And if you want to see a reviled 'ship, there ya go. I've been called a pedophile, a disgrace to my Indian heritage (by a white woman from the UK, no less), and a slut for liking my 'ship. At one point in time, someone signed me up for a bunch of J/C lists--I was getting 150 e-mails a day. People tried to get my avatar deleted as trolling.

I've known C/7ers whose fanfic sites were hacked.

It was *ugly*.

And what did it accomplish? Absolutely nothing except to make me really despise J/C. I won't even read J/C fic any more. I used to. Now I won't. They left such bile in my mouth that I can't stomach the pairing at all.

But, I'm still here and still writing C/7, and now that the dust has settled, it is generally pleasant to go into the Voyager forum. One of these days, we might even get a Seven-gush thread that doesn't include snide comments from the peanut gallery, but that day hasn't gotten here yet. I still have hope.

That's horrible. No one should be treated that way over a 'ship! I'm glad things are looking up in the VOY forum. I post there from time to time.

I do know how invested people get in their 'ships, and it does no good to tell someone to get over it or that it's just a TV show. People get invested in things for different reasons, and only that person knows how valid it is. C/7--a couple who had individually gone to hell and back--attracted me because at the time it was on, my late SO was dying. We *were* going to hell and back, and C/7 was a lovely fairy tale for me, something to look forward to after a day of work and a night in the CCU.

I can relate to that. I've 'shipped for different relationships over the year. After getting out of a really bad relationship 3 years ago, I rediscovered Trek and fanfiction. I read DS9 'ship fic. And eventually discovered VOY relationship fic. 'ship fic made me believe again that happy endings are possible.

Coming to this board and being told to "get over it" and that I was somehow deviant for liking the pairing really didn't sit well. Yet, though all of that, my perspective hasn't changed:

According to TNG's "Parallels," any possible reality can and does exist in its own quantum reality.

Any possible shipper pairing can and does occur in its own timeline. Just let the T/Ters have theirs and the A/Ters have theirs and agree to disagree. It's really unnecessary to tear each other down in order to build yourselves up.

I like the idea of alternate universes. I find that fanfiction is sometimes better at getting things right than canon. Plus alternate universe episodes have been some of my favorites.

Agreeing to dissagree is a good idea, I think.

 

[Darlah Nahan Halrad]

EDIT


Thought better of sharing my <ahem> opinion regarding the T/T vs. A/T shipwar...Would anybody care to PM me? I need to vent, and I don't think doing it here on the threads is gonna get me anything but a big fat warning. <sigh>

 

[Jenna]

Here's another one, that basically reiterates what everyone has said so far. Piling all of one "side" together and assuming that just because they like the same 'ship means ALL their opinions are the same is really ignorant and stupid. *shrugs*

I don't mind being called a "Tuckerite". I would hope people don't mind being called "Archerites". I think the "A/T'eam" is cute and clever. However, I object to any other nickname, especially the slanderous ones I've seen thrown around recently.

 

[The Evil Dead]

^
I'm guilty of all those crimes and so much more. Mostly the stupid and ignorant part.

I thought I was being somewhat cute with the nickname, I apologize. I use a variation as my location. Sometimes I need to stop and think, I guess.

Sorry, Jenna.

 

[pookha]

. Lumping people together in one group. People from a ‘ship group don’t ALL think alike. Some of them like their couple as friendship. Some like them romantically. And there are many more differences than just those.

and i think not clumping people together in other aspects like favorite performer should also apply..
and it might help if people would look to see if there are many voices with differences of opinion from within that group already posting within the thread you are commenting on..

 

[Hoshi's sis]

Quite agree Jenna. I know I haven't participated in this thread due to being off line for over a week but I probably wouldn't have anyway. It's all very well talking and discussing like this but you can bet your bottem dollar within a couple of days, you will find the same old things being thrown around again.

i.e. lumping people together.

What's the point!!!!!

 

[Jenna]

Posted by The Evil Dead:
^
I'm guilty of all those crimes and so much more. Mostly the stupid and ignorant part.

I thought I was being somewhat cute with the nickname, I apologize. I use a variation as my location. Sometimes I need to stop and think, I guess.

Sorry, Jenna.

My strong language was probably not called for either. Sorry about that. I really don't think anyone here is stupid or ignorant, but we all forget ourselves occasionally. (Me, sometimes more than most as you all know.)

Still, I think the point stands. Has anyone taken the color poll in Misc? Mine said that one of my greatest problems in life was that I didn't want people to assume facts not in evidence. I just don't like lumping.