Calling All Shippers! Mediation Thread

[witchie]

Posted by dmleo:

Posted by Jenna:

It's ironic though. I thought that we were supposed to be having a truce here. Yet the post that set this off for me tonight was in the Trip/T'Pol thread. That's ridiculous that in a thread devoted to the only pair of characters that have ANYTHING to do with my signature I'm trolled for that same sig.

Jenna I saw that dig at your sig. Yet another example of why we should stay the hell away from each other's shipper threads. Don't put a damper on someone's else's fun. I made the mistake of commenting in an A/T thread after Damage aired and I've learned my lesson. No more.

What's really bothered me of late was the title of the A/T thread with the catfish comment because I felt it was a not so subtle dig at Trip. The other, is the persistence of threads like the one created a couple of days ago comparing Trip to Christine Chapel. While the title seems relatively harmeless, the thread is really a venue for slamming the Trip/T'Pol realtionship. Every time one of these threads pops up the A/T folks gravitate to it like a moth to a flame. Threads such as these should be ignored since they only make people angy and lead to shipper wars.

As to the sig, there's a huge difference between making a positive statment about a ship that you love and having a sig that's either criticizing or making fun of another ship. As much as I hate ANISB I would never dream of including a negative remark about that episode or any other in my sig. I think that would be disrespectful. Yet, I've seen sigs criticizing both T/T and Harbinger.

We have a select group of posters who won't own up to their part in the growing hostilities. They instead put smilie faces and say I'm just joking when in reality they aren't sorry or kidding. That irritates more than anything. And regardless of what some people have said, the catfish remark is and always will be a crack against Trip and his Southern roots.

 

[angie]

What's really bothered me of late was the title of the A/T thread with the catfish comment because I felt it was a not so subtle dig at Trip.

It was changed immediately without a mod asking but because pookha spoke up.

As for the comment about the sig I will say I don't like it don't care what people's sigs are but am entitled to comment on them.I don't find Trip particularly attractive and seeing him strip in every thread is nauseating but I wouldn't expect people to change their avatars because I don't like them.It is personal taste just as seeing a line from what I feel was the weakest scene in ZH continually isn't my cup of tea though I do agree with Jenna it does sound better in French. For the record that scene between any two characters on any show would have still been weak IN MY OPINION and I read romance novels!

angie

 

[LLAP2U]

Posted by angie:
<snip>For the record that scene between any two characters on any show would have still been weak IN MY OPINION and I read romance novels!
angie

Now I want to make a point here......

If I said that 'IMO anyone that reads romance novels are usually boring old houswives that have something missing within themselves and in need of love and affection' I would be wrong if I placed that comment after your comment.

By if I placed that comment in another thread talking about romance and I did not know your preference for romance novels you may be upset and begin to express your anger in your post and I would not understand why...

What is my point...

When it comes down to 'shipper' discussions most of us are a bunch of strangers on here posting our comments without regard for other's preferences, likes and dislikes, tolerance levels, personal backgrounds, etc. And when we are posting if it is not in direct response to someone's post then we don't know that we are offending someone.

That tends to be a major problem within many of the threads. SOmeone says that they think something is romantic, attractive or sexy and all Hell breaks loose because someone else disagrees. It is fine for someone to disagree but if it becomes name calling or personal we may not understand why the person is taking it personally?

We forget that we really don't know each other and maybe the other person did not know that the statement would be inflammatory or offensive at the time they said it.

Just something for others to remember before they jump to conclusions because of statements the randomly read...

 

[Jenna]

Posted by angie:
As for the comment about the sig I will say I don't like it don't care what people's sigs are but am entitled to comment on them.

Ever heard the phrase "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"? Coming into a thread devoted to another group's ship and sliding in snide comments about "French sigs" is really low. I don't know anyone else around here with a French sig (maybe Camilla but I'd have to check), so it was pretty obvious I was the one being referenced, even though at that point I hadn't even been on line and posting.

I don't find Trip particularly attractive and seeing him strip in every thread is nauseating but I wouldn't expect people to change their avatars because I don't like them.

You were asked about the meaning of your avatar when you decided to make an appearance in the T/T thread last night. Some people thought it was kind of gross, but NO ONE was asking you to change it. You did that on your own. In fact, the person who asked about it went to great lengths to make sure you understood she wasn't trying to offend you, that she was just wondering about it.

It is personal taste just as seeing a line from what I feel was the weakest scene in ZH continually isn't my cup of tea though <...> For the record that scene between any two characters on any show would have still been weak IN MY OPINION and I read romance novels!

And if you had said that, that you felt the line was weak and didn't like that scene in Zero Hour, I wouldn't be here. That's a perfectly good opinion and I'm sure that lots of people share it. But that's not what was said. And this wasn't the first time.

I do agree with Jenna it does sound better in French.

I don't get this. If you think it sounds better, why the mean comments? Why say anything at all? I would have been fine if someone had come right out and said "Jenna, I don't like your signature. That line was weak in Zero Hour, and it looks weak in French." I would have replied that of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but I quite like it in French.

But no. The comments had to be about how nauseating certain "French sigs" were and how they made people laugh out loud (paraphrasing to be nice). How does saying that do ANYTHING constructive?

 

[RedFenix]

Posted by DAK:

Posted by RedFenix:
^My signature has been attacked, too. Granted, what mine said was quite a bit more controversial than yours...

May I ask how Jenna's sig is controversial *AT ALL*? I honestly don't see how it would offend anyone.

Controversial in that it made someone make some kind of remark about it. It doesn't bother me.

 

[RedFenix]

Also, something else, and while it may sound pretty...basic, I think it helps, and a few of us were discussing this in a chat not long ago.

Sometimes it's easy to forget that there's a person behind the poster. Like someone said earlier, a lot of the aggression that goes on here probably would never occur if this was a face-to-face conversation. It's easier to tease, prod, poke at, and bait a computer screen than it is a living, breathing person with a set of feelings attached. I can guarantee that I'm not as nasty or as pompous offline (or even outside of these boards) as I may appear to be here, and I think one of the main problems with non-verbal communication such as this is that voice tone and sarcasm can often be mistaken for something else when it really wasn't meant a certain way at all. Jokes, for one thing, which may have been intended as funny or light-hearted, can be taken the wrong way when someone isn't sure what the true intent of the poster is.

Sometimes...sometimes when I feel myself getting particularly angry at a certain poster, or irritated with something they say, it helps to remember to keep the poster separate from the person behind them.

 

[Ulva]

Well said, RedFenix.

 

[LLAP2U]

^^^

Thank you RedFenix! That is the point that I was trying to make earlier.

We don't know each other except for the statements that we post on the board. Before we say things we must remember that none of us really know anything about each other so we don't know who we are offending.

If something offends you and it is a general statement first asks yourself why and then comment if you think something is incorrect or a misunderstanding.

Lashing out never helps anything when it comes down to shipper threads...

 

[angie]

I didn't call anyone any names nor do I care but I am free to say I think the quote lame no matter the language. It is dialogue from the show and free for discussion. I am aware that some people liked it but there are even T/T peeps who thought the scene lame.Actually I give CT credit for pulling off his lines with sweetness and a genuine touching manner.My comment about liking romance novels(and frankly I know the perceptions and just like the perceptions about genre fans I don't care what people think the typical reader/viewer is) is that I don't mind schmaltz and often enjoy it yet didn't care for that scene no matter who was in it.BFD I don't like someone's sig and said so!Why should you or anyone care? Did I ask her or anyone to change it ?No. Did I change my avatar when people commented on it bothering them?Yes. It was no big deal. I happened to like the cowpie but hey I could see it was annoying. Did Feni change the title of our thread?Yes because it could be skewed negative towards a character and a whole region of the US and it isn't a big deal.

 

[Jenna]

I don't even know how to respond to that.

Of course you have the right to think and say that it's lame. But you didn't, and that is my point. You never addressed me ONCE directly. You never PMed me to ask about it. Instead, you brought it up randomly in threads where it wasn't a topic of discussion, and did so in a way that was underhanded and rude.

"Jenna, I don't like your signature. I thought that scene in Zero Hour was lame" - That is something that I can respect, and respond to without a problem.

Can you see the difference between doing that and addressing the situation head-on, and what you did? It's passive aggression.

I found something funny and said "Drink warning, please" and you responded with "Funny, that's what I think whenever I see your sig." classic trolling

Then, we have the T/T thread stuff. Someone asks a polite question about your avatar, and you respond with "It's not as bad as some French sigs."

What kind of behavior is that?

I think that there is a way to say things that encourages discussion and a mature exchange of ideas, and there's a way to say things that anger people and cause this situation.

 

[Blah]

ok guys we're getting off topic here.

You guys are refering to a specific incident so best take it up in PM's instead of here.

 

[Kalen Archer]

Posted by Blah:
ok guys we're getting off topic here.

You guys are refering to a specific incident so best take it up in PM's instead of here.

Good point. We'll never get anywhere if people keep arguing with each other. Tensions are high, and if we're not careful this thread will just descend into yet another "them versus us" thread. I'm sure nobody wants that.

 

[Jenna]

I was hoping to keep it general, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Frankly, I think unless a sig is blatently rude towards a person or ship it should be left alone. That includes RedFenix's sig. Or else, we're running the risk of having to remove sigs every time a teeny tiny part of it "offends" someone.

Oh, I also agree with RedFenix about the people behind the screens comment. Some of use live thousands of miles from each other and will never meet, but we still have feelings that can be hurt.

 

[LLAP2U]

Posted by angie:
I didn't call anyone any names nor do I care but I am free to say I think the quote lame no matter the language. It is dialogue from the show and free for discussion. I am aware that some people liked it but there are even T/T peeps who thought the scene lame.Actually I give CT credit for pulling off his lines with sweetness and a genuine touching manner.My comment about liking romance novels(and frankly I know the perceptions and just like the perceptions about genre fans I don't care what people think the typical reader/viewer is) is that I don't mind schmaltz and often enjoy it yet didn't care for that scene no matter who was in it.BFD I don't like someone's sig and said so!Why should you or anyone care? Did I ask her or anyone to change it ?No. Did I change my avatar when people commented on it bothering them?Yes. It was no big deal. I happened to like the cowpie but hey I could see it was annoying. Did Feni change the title of our thread?Yes because it could be skewed negative towards a character and a whole region of the US and it isn't a big deal.

Your reaction informs me that you did not get the point that I was trying to make. And your reaction comes off as defensiveness (forgive me if i am wrong). This is what I was trying to point out about taking things personal...

Thank you angie.

 

[angie]

Your reaction informs me that you did not get the point that I was trying to make. And your reaction comes off as defensiveness (forgive me if i am wrong). This is what I was trying to point out about taking things personal...

Thank you angie.

I did get your point. The double standard is in play. I apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. I had assumed that since snarkiness is dished out it could be taken. It was immature of me and I will refrain from publicly snarking in the future.

angie

 

['Shippy]

Posted by Kalen Archer:

Posted by Blah:
ok guys we're getting off topic here.

You guys are refering to a specific incident so best take it up in PM's instead of here.

Good point. We'll never get anywhere if people keep arguing with each other. Tensions are high, and if we're not careful this thread will just descend into yet another "them versus us" thread. I'm sure nobody wants that.

I agree.

I think dredging up the past and looking at specific incidents isn't really helping. And could lead to more tension.

From my POV, It's not providing solutions. It's not like saying a general problem. And then saying a way that it could be solved.

I'm going to say my peace.

I haven't been around here to long. I delayed joining this board because I knew about 'shippy tension. I've since come to enjoy posting here. I enjoy discussing here. I try to be nice to people, even when I disagree with them. Sometimes, my frustration comes through.

I've seen a lot of s*** flung from both sides of the fence since I've been here. But, I'm not going to bring up that. I'm thinking, maybe it's time I forgive and forget some things that happened. And try to find solutions to the problems. And see what I can do better.

 

[Ulva]

Posted by 'Shippy:

Posted by Kalen Archer:

Posted by Blah:
ok guys we're getting off topic here.

You guys are refering to a specific incident so best take it up in PM's instead of here.

Good point. We'll never get anywhere if people keep arguing with each other. Tensions are high, and if we're not careful this thread will just descend into yet another "them versus us" thread. I'm sure nobody wants that.

I agree.

I think dredging up the past and looking at specific incidents isn't really helping. And could lead to more tension.

From my POV, It's not providing solutions. It's not like saying a general problem. And then saying a way that it could be solved.

I'm going to say my peace.

I haven't been around here to long. I delayed joining this board because I knew about 'shippy tension. I've since come to enjoy posting here. I enjoy discussing here. I try to be nice to people, even when I disagree with them. Sometimes, my frustration comes through.

I've seen a lot of s*** flung from both sides of the fence since I've been here. But, I'm not going to bring up that. I'm thinking, maybe it's time I forgive and forget some things that happened. And try to find solutions to the problems. And see what I can do better.

I'm with you on this 'shippy.

 

[Jenna]

I have noble intentions, but my problem is that I restrain myself so much in the regular threads that I feel like this is the opportunity to get everything out. There are so many things that happen that anger people, but no one says anything and it just builds and builds. Then it starts bleeding over into other threads and other topics.

We PM each other and vent and try to calm each other down so it doesn't get out of control, but nothing will ever change if the "other side" doesn't know about the things that bother us. I fully believe that some of the comments that upset people are made in full innocence. Not all of them, but some.

 

[Kalen Archer]

I think the best solution is to PM someone if they have said something that has upset you or offended you. If that person is unresponsive or unfriendly then maybe approach a more neutral member of the shipper group and ask them to talk to the person in question?

I would gladly talk to an A/Ter that someone felt had gone over the line if it meant our dirty laundry wasn't aired in public so to speak.

I think these ongoing "back and forth", "them versus us" sessions have got to stop. They really hinder my and others enjoyment of the board. It's making us shippers as a whole look not too good, which is a shame.

 

[Ulva]

You're so right Kalen. We all enjoy ENT and I want to be friends with people around here. It's not fun when these clashes happen and I for one tries to stay out of it.

Oh yes, of course I can get hurt if someone flames me, but I don't want to be drawn in to a quarrel, so I just wants to leave.

Usually I just goes out to have smoke, read something or chases the cat around for a while and then comes back and goes some place else here.